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major video card problem (Read 400 times)
bucksavage
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major video card problem
27.02.14 at 05:25:57
 
I  need some help with a problem. 

First off, my rig is a Intel Pentium 4 530J @3ghz (Prescott) Socket 775LGA processor, on an ASUSTek P5P800 mainboard, Intel i865PE chipset, with 1gb of ram, and a ATI Radeon 9200 AGP vid card with 128mb of ram.  I use an ACER X223W 22 inch monitor.  also, the BIOS is by American Megatrends.

I have an Nvidia Geforce4 Ti 4200 video card that I used in my previous rig (also a P4 but slower) and the card ran great.  Since I use an LCD monitor I wanted to try this card out as it has a DVI connector, the ATI does not and until now I was using the VGA connector. 

However, once I installed it this is where the problems arose.  After install, there were video distortions during the POST screeen; vertical groups of 3 black lines, each group being about 3/8 of an inch across, with about 2 inches between each group appeared during every boot up, and continued to appear throughout use, even into loading Windows.  The only difference was that in windows, the lines spread over the whole screeen.  Imagine them as one half of a basket weave.  And they were yellow instead of black, were slightly translucent and disappeared momentarily if the CPU wasn't processing data, or if I didn't move the  mouse.  Move the mouse, lines appeared again. 

Now, additionally, during boot up, when the system would post the vid card's BIOS info, in this case Geforce4 Ti 4200, and the copyright info and all that, the image was skewed to the left so that it appeared more like:

force Ti 4200
right Nvida

but when the POST acrenn appeared, the text was shifted back to the right, so it was more normal. 

Also, in addition to that problem, the black lines could only be seen if you went into the BIOS menu, but during Command line use, or upon loading safe mode, when it compiles the list of programs before entering safe mode, anywhere the black line groups would have intersected with the text, letters were missing. 

as in:  this is my house.  leave now. 

became:  this i  y hou . lea   no .

what could cause all this? 

in the end, I went back to the ATI card, ran system restore and restored the drivers.
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ultima
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Re: major video card problem
Reply #1 - 27.02.14 at 08:35:07
 
sounds like you have defective ram on the card.....but does this happen when using either of the connectors? VGA as well as DVI?

If so, I would say bad ram, if not, and only the DVI, I would say the controller chip for the DVI has some errors.

anyways....seeing as how old the card is, I wouldn't put too much time into it.  those cards can be had for 5 euros or something
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bucksavage
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Re: major video card problem
Reply #2 - 28.02.14 at 04:53:35
 
I tried both connectors, I couldn't figure out how to get the dvi to work.  Only the vga connection worked, but it had the distortions. 

Could left over drivers or something from the ATI card cause this kind of issue?  I uninstalled, or thought I did, but I think the uninstaller didn't work right.

also, another problem was that during driver installation for the Nvidia card, the monitor would stop receiving a signal from the computer, even though I know for a fact XP was still runing; if I hit keys on the keyboard, like the Windows key to bring up the start menu, the CU processed info and the activity light on the front of the machine lit up for a time. 

Could it have been the DVI cable?  It was a salvaged part from my work.  I'm not sure, but I think it was never used but sat in a store room for like 3 years in a box. 

Also, how could the ram be "bad" on the Nvidia?  Last time I ran it was perhaps a year and a haolf ago, maybe a little longer and at the time it ran like clockwork, no issues at all.  Since then it has sat in a desk drawer, with another left over card and other parts and such; the 3rd video card I have still works, last time I checked, maybe a year ago, it's a 32MB Nvidia, the hard drives work, too.  So how could the ram just suddenly be bad on the 128MB Nvidia GeForce?
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« Last Edit: 28.02.14 at 04:58:26 by bucksavage »  

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Thandor
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Re: major video card problem
Reply #3 - 28.02.14 at 10:14:39
 
Did you take ESD-precautions (Electric Static Discharge) when handling the GeForce 4 Ti4200? RAM is quite sensitive!

Also check if your card is bent in any way. Sometimes I notice that slightly tilting a card when it's installed in it's AGP-slot will make the problems go away. If you try this method (on your own risk) tilt the card slightly before turning on your PC and keep it tilted when you turn it on. It's not really a fix but I used this trick to benchmark a few rare graphic cards that were damaged.
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« Last Edit: 28.02.14 at 10:16:54 by Thandor »  
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bucksavage
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Re: major video card problem
Reply #4 - 28.02.14 at 19:34:33
 
Thandor wrote on 28.02.14 at 10:14:39:
Did you take ESD-precautions (Electric Static Discharge) when handling the GeForce 4 Ti4200? RAM is quite sensitive!

Also check if your card is bent in any way. Sometimes I notice that slightly tilting a card when it's installed in it's AGP-slot will make the problems go away. If you try this method (on your own risk) tilt the card slightly before turning on your PC and keep it tilted when you turn it on. It's not really a fix but I used this trick to benchmark a few rare graphic cards that were damaged.



I don't own one of the strap things, bu tyes, I did the next best thing I could do, held onto the metal case with one hand, or the other for around 90% of the time, excepting the few times I needed both hands free.  I was also careful with the card, touching metal first, not jarring it around like crazy, etc. 

The card is not bent, no damage at all that I could see. 
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« Last Edit: 28.02.14 at 19:35:43 by bucksavage »  

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Re: major video card problem
Reply #5 - 28.02.14 at 22:27:32
 
Unfortunately some cards simply die, even if you are very careful with them.

I recently tested a few cards that I wanted to sell, they were tested 1 or 2 years ago, they  worked perfectly then. I stored them in very good conditions, in antistatic bags, at constant room temperature, when I tested them again they were giving artifacts - small fots all over the screen Sad

Just like ultima said, don't worry about it, it's a very common and cheap cards, be glad that it didn't happen to a V5 6000, a Quantum3D brick, etc...
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« Last Edit: 28.02.14 at 22:28:52 by RaverX »  
 
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bucksavage
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Re: major video card problem
Reply #6 - 01.03.14 at 05:03:11
 
RaverX wrote on 28.02.14 at 22:27:32:
Unfortunately some cards simply die, even if you are very careful with them.

I recently tested a few cards that I wanted to sell, they were tested 1 or 2 years ago, they  worked perfectly then. I stored them in very good conditions, in antistatic bags, at constant room temperature, when I tested them again they were giving artifacts - small fots all over the screen Sad

Just like ultima said, don't worry about it, it's a very common and cheap cards, be glad that it didn't happen to a V5 6000, a Quantum3D brick, etc...


Oh heck yeah, having a rare card go dead would suck majorly.  Good thing I don't own such cards. 

Not really that worried about the card, didn't even pay for it, my brother gave it to  me a few years back so I'm not out any money.  would have been nice but it isn't the end of the world.
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« Last Edit: 01.03.14 at 05:04:50 by bucksavage »  

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Re: major video card problem
Reply #7 - 02.03.14 at 01:35:06
 
Before you junk that card (if you're certain is it defective with such issues), there's a last ditch trick.

You can "bake" the hardware, if the suspected problem is a 'cold' solder point or unstable/broken electrical connection anywhere on the PCB to the ICs.

The methods and recommendations vary, but with plastic parts removed (=usually requires entire cooler to be removed) and exposed to ~125/max. 150deg Celsius for 60/30 minutes respectively, it is often possible to revive the hardware back to fully functional condition.

Most people reported very good results with simply placing the Video card i.e. onto a ceramic plate into a preheated conventional oven.
The surface should allow the card to rest on its entire surface to preclude any bending tendencies of the card (i.e. it shouldn't rest only on its edges).

While it sounds a bit crazy, the reason for that last ditch quickfix to actually work quite often is based on the metallurgic behaviour of the soldering compound used on the PCBs.
If any line developed a weak point with unstable or broken electrical connection, exposing the soldering compound to these temperatures for a limited time causes parts of the compound to re-organize sufficiently enough on a molecular level to close electrical connections again.

Of course, this method does nothing to defective chips itself, but the majority of aging video card issues seems to be broken/cold solder points/connections. These likely occur due to repeated exposure to the typical thermal stress after many years of use.

If attempted without success on first time (i.e. at relatively low temperature), a 2nd try with higher temperature usually does the trick. About 135 to max. 150deg Celsius for about 30 Minutes seems a sweet spot as far as I can tell.

The capacitors, ICs, VRMs and the PCB itself are typically able to temporarily accept exceeding their temperature design limits in unpowered condition.

It is important to note that the cooldown period should be very gentle (no attempt must be made to accelerate the cooling process), as this would induce unwanted very high thermal stress on the soldering points and defeat the purpose of the entire procedure.
Also, the extraction of the hardware should occur careful and free of any mechanical shocks while it is still at temperature.

If the procedure has no effect even after two attempts and the hardware i.e. has RAM chips or other important ICs also soldered on its backside, repeating the procedure with the card upside down can help (this practically reverses the direction of gravity on the PCB, in which the soldering compound can partly reorganize).

So far I've only revived an USB device with that method, but that went from 100% non-working back to fully working and I have it in operation ever since.

PS.
Speaking of capacitors :
The 2nd most common reason for older Video card failures are broken/blown/leaking capacitors. These have a limited lifespan defined by a time/temperature curve and will eventually fail. Sometimes visibly (cracked tops), sometimes one can only smell the electrolytes that have leaked.
Newer cards use modern high quality hardcap capacitors designed for 125deg. or higher with drastically improved lifespans.
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« Last Edit: 02.03.14 at 02:11:14 by FalconFly »  
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bucksavage
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Re: major video card problem
Reply #8 - 02.03.14 at 04:52:32
 
I don't really have the time to go to the bother....but....I'll probably keep the card and maybe try that down the line.  thc for the info.
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Re: major video card problem
Reply #9 - 02.03.14 at 11:56:53
 
AFAIK the oven trick can work more likely as a temporary fix instead of a permanent solution. The many hardware stories that I read tell that soon or later the soldering issues could back at any time.

BTW, if theren't other choices first to trash the hardware, this could be a funny way to go.
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Re: major video card problem
Reply #10 - 04.03.14 at 10:58:37
 
True, the fix likely won't be perfect and the weak spot will always remain the weakest link...

My fixed device now runs approx. 1.5 months without issues (24/7), so that's my only personal reference.

At least I got it from completely useless back to life Smiley

IMHO it's still a useful fix for this type of hardware problem located in a completely unknown and likely inaccessible location anywhere on a PCB.
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« Last Edit: 04.03.14 at 11:00:02 by FalconFly »  
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Re: major video card problem
Reply #11 - 04.01.15 at 00:08:46
 
Just got another card from the same place with a similar issue, only that the distortions and artifacts are much worse in VGA.  The card is an Radeon X1600 Pro AGP 512mb.  With both cards when I used the DVI, I got no signal at all.  Nothing,  Is there something I need to do to enable DVI?  If only the vga is affected perhaps the card might work in DVI?  Maybe not, but it's worth a shot, right? 

I should also say that the card I use now is not AGP PRo.  It's anothe AGP type.
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« Last Edit: 04.01.15 at 00:10:13 by bucksavage »  

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