3dfx Archive
http://www.falconfly.de/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
3dfx Section >> Tech Talk >> AAlchemy 8164
http://www.falconfly.de/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1215197805

Message started by m14radu on 04.07.08 at 21:56:45

Title: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 04.07.08 at 21:56:45
Today was the day.

My AAalchemy 8164 was layng around from some good months, so i decided to start it !

I used my Enermax power supply.
I know that the Power supply is far from that one used into the aalchemy servers. ( regarding ampere ) .
That 75A @2.9V is required in my opinion only if the server is fully equiped with 4AA cards, for the maximum consumption.
For just one card, the required power ( ampere ) should be not so high.
Can somebody measure the really needed ampere ? ( @ 8x or 16x load , with AA on) ?
That will be a really help for me.
Even the ampere is not enought,  no damage can occur.....only the sistem may hang..

ok, let's continue..

After wiring the card, it came to the " emotional" moment..
The computer start whitout problems, the yeallow card LED is on.
Entering Windows.
PCI to PCI bridge is found and installed. The card is alive  :D
..
I use Win XP, and afaik there is no XP driver for the platform.
Only for the Win2000k.

How can i test the card ?
only by installing the Win200 ?
The control panel show only the PCI to PCI bridge, and an unknow multimedia device ....
The critical point will be when the needed driver will be installed and the entyre card will work... ;)

Fotos will follow.
Regards.
Radu.


P.S. If you put only the card into the PCI slot ( whitout to suply it ), the card and sistem will not start. Not even boot.nothing..only black screen.
I asked long time ago if the card will be damaged if he is not supplyed.
The answer is no.
Only the bridge gets hot, but there is no damage.
I test that on my own card.

Many thanks to Rolo for providing the card ;)

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by exxe on 04.07.08 at 22:07:23
you can try the 2k driver on xp, maybe it work



http://www.abload.de/img/aalchemyon9.jpg

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 04.07.08 at 22:32:53
Do you have a link ?

i can't find the driver !

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by gamma742 on 05.07.08 at 00:36:50
I could email them to you...

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by gdonovan on 05.07.08 at 02:42:17

m14radu wrote on 04.07.08 at 21:56:45:
That 75A @2.9V is required in my opinion only if the server is fully equiped with 4AA cards, for the maximum consumption.


Not true- The AA5 systems were never sold with 4 cards, only two max. Three boards in theory but never been tried I'm told.

Power consumption is 220-225 watts at idle, 285-290 watts running a demo at 120 volts AC with a single board and two P3 1.0 ghz.

Under load the power consumption jumps a lot, I'll try to do some retesting this week.

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by gamma742 on 05.07.08 at 03:08:44
Does your enermax have a 2.9v output?  :o

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 05.07.08 at 09:03:28
Thanks for help gamma742  ;)

Unfortunately the drivers cannot be installed on XP.
My Enermax only output 3.3V, but with a small change i also manged to output 2.7V.

It's there any other posibility to test the card under XP ??


Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by exxe on 05.07.08 at 10:07:17
http://quantum3d.com/ProductUpdates_AAlchemy.aspx

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 05.07.08 at 11:09:03
Yep, i was there, but when i press "I AGREED", i got an error message:

HTTP 404 - File not found
The Page Cannot Be Found




Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 05.07.08 at 13:30:06
I installed Win2000.
Now, the Quantum3D AA5 PCI is show in the device manager  :)

But i'm not able to start any application. Not even the glide test.
I get an error message, the file glide3xr.dll is missing.

any ideas ?

>:(


Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by gdonovan on 05.07.08 at 14:16:08

m14radu wrote on 05.07.08 at 13:30:06:
But i'm not able to start any application. Not even the glide test.
I get an error message, the file glide3xr.dll is missing.


Assuming the drivers are installed right (you did install all service packs right? the Q3D drivers require minimum of SP3)

1) Card is bad.

2) Card doesn't have enough power to run.

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 05.07.08 at 15:54:16
no, it is only the nacked Win2000.
no SP.

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by gdonovan on 05.07.08 at 17:07:36

m14radu wrote on 05.07.08 at 15:54:16:
no, it is only the nacked Win2000.
no SP.


http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=DC27B8C6-2A5A-4399-AD3D-4A97A25F41D9&displaylang=en

OR

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=1001AAF1-749F-49F4-8010-297BD6CA33A0&displaylang=en


Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 05.07.08 at 17:12:13
yes, thanks.
i install them right now.

i notify also that there is no AALchemy display properties.
did i use a bad driver ?

The quantum3d page is not working, so that i'm not able to download them.
I use now the version 4.6.43.0.


The monitor cable is instaled on my Ti4200 card output, and not on the aalchemy output. It's that ok ?


Btw. there is another small conector on the power board ( 4 pins ).
What is that for ?


Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by exxe on 05.07.08 at 17:58:33
the aalchemy only outputs in 3d mode

the AALchemy display properties are not at the place like the normal voodoo properties

go to advanced or how ever it colled in english windows versions

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by gdonovan on 05.07.08 at 18:07:38

exxe wrote on 05.07.08 at 17:58:33:
the aalchemy only outputs in 3d mode

the AALchemy display properties are not at the place like the normal voodoo properties

go to advanced or how ever it colled in english windows versions


Yes in Windows 2000 you have to go to the advanced tab,

And you will have to swap monitors when running, AA5 only outputs in 3D.

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 05.07.08 at 19:48:22
in the advanced tab is no trace from AA5.

SP4 is instaled.
The VSA heatsink are not hot.... just a little bit warm..

can somebody measure the voltage on the 2.7V nuts on runing sistem ?
on my card it's only 0.8V ( ??? )
on the 3.3V nuts i measurre approx.3V.

see the measure points in the picture below ( picture from exxe ).




Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 06.07.08 at 17:52:42
The card take a lot of power.
Right at the start, it's consumption is 4.5A. My Multimeter scale si max 10A, so that i don't have the right tools  to measure the consumption under load :) I take no risk.

After searching and searching, i rise the voltage on the 2.7 V line, and now the card is recognized into the display properties.
I believe that the 2.7V line supply the VSA cips.

I thought also that i have an 8164..because is written like that on the card..but it's a 8132.

The 2.7Volts wire get really hot !

I take every unnecessary component out of the system ( SB, DVD, 512mb ram, i replace the vga card and i reduce the CPU speed )

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by exxe on 06.07.08 at 18:04:53
you have a x32 no memory on the VSA side
and yes the 2,7 or 2,9 line is direkt Vcore for the chips
first carda have 2,7 later ones have 2,9 dont know why

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by gdonovan on 06.07.08 at 19:03:14
A V5-6000 pulls 50 watts, figure 100 watts to be safe for AA5.

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by ultima on 06.07.08 at 22:29:21
yeah, but isn't the real problem that the 8164 gets it's power over the 2.7 line and the 6000 gets it through molex, which is 5??
By that I mean ofcourse the amount of Ampere can supply, would figure that 5V can supply higher.

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by exxe on 06.07.08 at 22:42:38
v56k gets 12Volts

and

Volt x Ampere = Watt
easy and simple

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 07.07.08 at 15:49:04
did somebody measure the voltages on an AA5 ?

my display properties:



when i push the "test " buton, there is an error message: file glide3xr.dll is missing...???

in the device manager i have 2 Quantum AA5 PCI devices....in reality there is only one....can somebody explain that ?

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by gdonovan on 08.07.08 at 02:58:21

m14radu wrote on 07.07.08 at 15:49:04:
in the device manager i have 2 Quantum AA5 PCI devices....in reality there is only one....can somebody explain that ?



Try uninstalling the drivers and card and reinstalling.

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by gamma742 on 22.07.08 at 06:28:53
WOW!  :o

It is an 8132SB

Gary, do you have any of these?

Mine are all 82XX cards and 84XX

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by gdonovan on 22.07.08 at 11:21:09

gamma742 wrote on 22.07.08 at 06:28:53:
WOW!  :o

It is an 8132SB

Gary, do you have any of these?


Yes.

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by gamma742 on 23.07.08 at 19:15:18
An AA5 3D graphics subsystem in all AAlchemy PC-IG systems and is available in two basic versions:

• Performance Trilinear (PT) Available
• No Performance Trilinear Available

Performance Trilinear is a special purpose hardware feature unique to Quantum3D’s AA5. PT can double the pixel fill-rate performance of your application when its feature set is enabled and you are rendering with 22-bpp color. This is possible because a PT enabled board can putput two pixels per clock instead of just one.

AA5 graphics boards manufactured after April 2001 are normally equipped with PT hardware. You can easily tell if your board is PT enabled or not. A PT enabled board is reported as a 82xxSB in the display property sheet where xx refers to the number of megabytes of memory found on the board (32 or 64). A board without PT is reported as 81xxDB in the display property sheet.

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by gamma742 on 02.08.08 at 20:37:59

m14radu wrote on 04.07.08 at 21:56:45:
My AAalchemy 8164 was layng around from some good months, so i decided to start it !


Many thanks to Rolo for providing the card ;)



So have you made any progress since we heard from you last?

Several people have these cards but few have them working.

You would be quite the hero if you could get yours working without the
needed AV4 Power Supply. Might encourage other to do the same.
We are all behind you and anxiously await your final report...

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 02.08.08 at 21:08:13
Well, i stop the projekt because i don't have any kind of information regarding the voltage measurements .

Sad but true.

As soon as i will have these informations, i will be happy to continue.

( The same is happent with the V5 5500 AGP4x projekt. )

I spoke with Hiero about this projekt, and he will try to do it also.

So far, the card presence ( VSA's and Hint ) is shown into the Device manager, but i did not managed to start a 3d application.

@www.voodoo3dfx.com i start a similar topic. Unfortnately the page is not available since a Week !

Regards.
Radu.


Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 24.08.08 at 08:24:45
I use Win 2000 Server.
Could be that a reason why the card is not working in 3D ?

Should i try Win 2000 Pro ?

PS.
With thin wires ( 0.35 qmm ), the VSA's are detected, when using bigger section ( 1 qmm ) , they are not available.
Can somebody explain this behaviour ?


Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by MaxPain on 24.08.08 at 21:41:49
Hey all. I just acquired one of these lovely beasts as well! After some time of bidding on them, one going for over $400, I got one for $38 ^_^ Auction was for an 8132, but I received an 8164, so SHH! However that was all my extra spending cash I had and the PSU that went just a few days ago was $45. I suspect that it had a much higher bid on it than that though, so I wouldn't have even had close to enough since LogicalMadness' (Ben) has one up and it's going for $199 starting :\

So basically I'm in the same boat as everyone here, except Gary >:( You bassturd! ;)

So here's my thoughts: Could Gary provide the amps under load with 16xAA. The gauge(diameter) of the power wires leading to the power-board from the PSU and maybe if they get hot like m14?

As for drivers: I'm also in need of some since Q3D's site is not allowing us access due to a server move (it seems). And on that note, since we have the 3Dfx source code now (I have it if anyone wants it, it's like 50mb compressed), could we some how modify the Q3D drivers to work in XP, or maybe even make some new drivers based on 6K's? Or at the very least somehow improve on Q3D's 2K drivers for better quality or speed?

Then also my board has the "Sensor Post Processor" (SPP from here out) card which has dual DVI ports on it, basically from my reading it's almost a Physics card, but it adds 'realism' to the military apps. Such as the grainy video while using night vision. Is that ALL it does, or does it also act as a 2D card? It has a G/VPU with 4 chips of SGR (or whatever some V3s came with). Yet that might solely be for the post processing. Even if it does still need a 2D card, would I need to hook up my monitor to the 8164 card? The SPP connects to the 8164 via Q3D's usual board-to-board connectors (interconnects?), so I'm thinking maybe I just need to run that card to my monitor. Sadly that'll only mean I need a bigger PSU, but in the long run I can hook it up to a really nice LCD monitor ;D

So, to sum all this up: Can Gary give us max-load amps being drawn, wire gauge? Possible to modify 3Dfx source to work with these cards for XP, or improve things? Anyone have a link for drivers for me? Can my SPP card double as a 2D card?

And on a final note, while it's 4 years old, this guy got things started with a 550W, but essentially is in the same boat as us.

http://www.3dfxzone.it/enboard/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=738

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by gdonovan on 25.08.08 at 03:55:52


> So here's my thoughts: Could Gary provide the amps under load with 16xAA.

8x, there is no option for 16x.

Actually there is a formula for figuring amp load from watts and voltage. Since I already have supplied the watts pulled, should be just a matter of punching in the numbers.

> As for drivers: I'm also in need of some since Q3D's site is not allowing us access due to a server move (it seems).

I can help there once my main machines data is recovered.

> And on that note, since we have the 3Dfx source code now (I have it if anyone wants it, it's like 50mb compressed), could we some how modify the Q3D drivers to work in XP, or maybe even make some new drivers based on 6K's?

The AA5 boards have a different power up routine than the V6k, you would have to get the source from Q3D.


Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by MaxPain on 25.08.08 at 05:11:28
So why aren't we able to select 16xAA when a Q3D graph showed these cards fillrate under 16x? EDIT: Hard to read what it says after "16", hell it's all hard to read, but here's that graph. http://www.hardwareportal.ru/Technologies/Heavymetal/Diagram1.gif

Is the driver file bid_08CD-Release_4.6? I managed to get it from Q3D's site (more digging than I figured). They have a live link still @ http://www.quantum3d.com/old/support/aalchemy/bid_08CD-Release_4.6.zip This one driver site (which I'm sure is sorely wrong) says these are XP compatible... Being a 04 release, I don't find that to be too far fetched but.. anyone tried?

Was your wattage pulled from a FULL system load, or just the cards draw? What's the easiest way to "down volt" a 3.3v line to 2.7/2.9? (which ever my card needs, it's in it's anti-static bag and I don't feel like pulling it out) EDIT: 217.5 watts is 75A @ 2.9v. 202.5 watts is 75A @ 2.7v. Problem now is how do I find out the max Amps a PSU can handle? 3.3v rails only support around 28A (on a PSU I looked up quick on NewEgg). So is that 75A rail so high to run both the whole system AND the card? Or a PSU they made for the 82xx rigs as well as 81xx, and we don't really need all that? And you mentioned 290w @ 120v. So are we not supposed to factor the 2.7/2.9 into the math, but 120v from the wall?

I suppose Hank wouldn't be willing to part with old Q3D VSA driver source either lol

And no idea about this Sensor Post Processor card, eh Gary?

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 25.08.08 at 11:59:59
Yes, i have the same driver.
And yes, i tried this driver on XP, and it's not working.

In the Readme file is written that the driver is for NT and win2000.

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by gdonovan on 25.08.08 at 12:06:12
>So why aren't we able to select 16xAA when a Q3D graph showed these cards fillrate under 16x?

I'm just reporting what is being shown in the driver panel, don't shoot the messenger.

> Is the driver file bid_08CD-Release_4.6?

I'd have to recover my hard drive before I can answer that question.

> Was your wattage pulled from a FULL system load, or just the cards draw?

Full system- You just need to calculate based on the difference under load/no load. It will be close enough I suspect.

Calculate 100 watts @120 volts and you should be safe.

> I suppose Hank wouldn't be willing to part with old Q3D VSA driver source either lol

Everyone at Q3D is skittish after the Chinese guy got tossed in jail for peddling nvsensor software and other Q3d data to places in Asia.

Don't bet on anyone there helping on that.

> And no idea about this Sensor Post Processor card, eh Gary?

I don't have any further data at the moment.


Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by MaxPain on 25.08.08 at 14:13:18
heh I'm not shooting the messenger, I didn't even mean to come across as a smart ass, sorry if it did. Just found it odd that it's not selectable.  :-? Seeing as it's double a V5 6K and it does 8x :\

Sadly I guess I'm still a bit confused on how to accurately calculate the required power needed. What I plan to do is run a dedicated PSU for the 8164. That way I can change the 3.3v or 5v rail to 2.9v (I'm sure mines 2.9v). If it only needs 100w, I'm thinking then that the 28-35A that a PSU provides for the 3.3 or 5v rails will be enough.

Like this, here's how I'm stuck:

"The conversion of Volts to Amps is governed by the equations Amps = Watts/Volts
For example 120 watts/110 volts = 1.09 amps"

Based on your 100W and 110V info, that's .909090~ amps. Now, use 2.9 as the voltage and you get 34.48A, which sounds much better, no?

If that IS the case, there is this one (no idea on the quality of these for how long they'll last, but since they'd only be used under novelty conditions might not matter.)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182006

Or this one for much cheaper
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817255011

Both have 35A on the 5v rail which we could regulate down to 2.7/2.9v and then be .4A above what the calculated usage is.

PS: I have a Medusa cable still, can/should I use that for this card?

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by gamma742 on 26.08.08 at 05:56:43

MaxPain wrote on 25.08.08 at 14:13:18:
PS: I have a Medusa cable still, can/should I use that for this card?



Medusa?? on a AAlchemy??? You must be thinking of a Q3D Mercury System.

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by MaxPain on 26.08.08 at 17:49:45
hah Yea. I for some reason, thought I read in the thread here that these only do 3D. Why, I don't know -_- Talk about a brain fart heh

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 27.08.08 at 07:07:13
I tryed some schematics - take a look here.

http://www.voodoo3dfx.com/Foro_V6k/viewtopic.php?t=105

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by MaxPain on 27.08.08 at 07:36:42

m14radu wrote on 27.08.08 at 07:07:13:
I tryed some schematics - take a look here.

http://www.voodoo3dfx.com/Foro_V6k/viewtopic.php?t=105


Hey bud, I'm pretty sure that your problem is you're only supplying 1 bank of VSAs. Apparently they are what take the 2.9v and since there are 2-sets of 4, there are 2 points for 2.9v. You're only supplying 1 point with 2.9v and the other is getting nothing. So either 1) The card is dividing up the 2.9v for both banks and that's why there's so little voltage 2) The card is only having 4 of the 8 VSA's powered and that's why it's not displaying things right AND coming back with an error during testing.

Solution: Take your second PSU you had (or it seemed like you were using 2 in Method 2) and run it to the back 2.9v. Also, I'd take the 5v off both and step it down to the 2.9v and use the 3.3v for the actual 3.3v. Why you might ask? Well because the 5v rail itself has a higher amp output than the 3.3v rail. We need all we can get after all :) And if it takes 2 PSU's to get this beauty working, then so be it! The one i linked on NewEgg is only $15 anyways :P $30 is a mighty cheap AA5 PSU! ;D

EDIT: Possible problem #2, and picture to help explain what I mean for you to try.

Now, in addition to not supplying the 2nd point with 2.9v, I think maybe the resistor might not be allowing enough amps through it, but I'm not an electrician, so I can't exactly answer that with certainty. My problem when I was trying to find a regulator, was that they could only handle a certain amount of amps. What size resistor are you using to step-down the voltage to 2.9?


Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 27.08.08 at 08:56:35
Well, the 2.9V points are connected together throught the Power board.
So that it's enought to supply one point !

The reason why i thake the 5 V Line and convert to 2.9V is becouse of the high ampere output that are available there. ( on 5V line i get 44 AMp, on 3.3V i get 38 A ).   ;)

I think that the problem is the used resistor, witch is not able to handle enought amps. There is no size marked on the resistor i used.

Why don't we take a look inside of a original AAlchemy PSU, in order to see what components we need ?  

P.S. I supply also the second 2.9V point, and nothing change.

There must exist also a 2.7V or 2.9V voltage regulator, witch will make the whole schematichs easyer. ( like for example LM7805 for 5 V )

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by gdonovan on 27.08.08 at 11:41:30

m14radu wrote on 27.08.08 at 08:56:35:
I think that the problem is the used resistor, witch is not able to handle enought amps.


I would not be surprised, if it was that easy then Quantum3D would have gone that route.


Quote:
Why don't we take a look inside of a original AAlchemy PSU, in order to see what components we need ?  


There is a second full size PSU in an AV4 Power supply dedicated just for AA5 board output.


Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 27.08.08 at 12:55:18
@ Gary: would it be possible to makes some Fotos of the AA5 PSU interior ?

That would be great !


Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by MaxPain on 27.08.08 at 18:31:38
That's quite the PSU you have if it does 44A! If you split the amperage in 1/2 from what the AV4 says on it, that pretty much puts you in the zone for having the right amount of amps to supply. Assuming the other 30~ is for the system.

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 28.08.08 at 10:54:52
What value should must have the Resistor / Potentiometer ?


Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by gdonovan on 28.08.08 at 12:08:37

m14radu wrote on 27.08.08 at 12:55:18:
@ Gary: would it be possible to makes some Fotos of the AA5 PSU interior ?


Sure.

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by MaxPain on 28.08.08 at 13:32:41

m14radu wrote on 28.08.08 at 10:54:52:
What value should must have the Resistor / Potentiometer ?


I don't quite understand what you mean  :-/

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 28.08.08 at 14:33:00
Your words:
"I think maybe the resistor might not be allowing enough amps through it, but I'm not an electrician, so I can't exactly answer that with certainty. My problem when I was trying to find a regulator, was that they could only handle a certain amount of amps. What size resistor are you using to step-down the voltage to 2.9? "

I mean the value / size of this resistor !  ;)

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by MaxPain on 28.08.08 at 16:49:51

m14radu wrote on 28.08.08 at 14:33:00:
Your words:
"I think maybe the resistor might not be allowing enough amps through it, but I'm not an electrician, so I can't exactly answer that with certainty. My problem when I was trying to find a regulator, was that they could only handle a certain amount of amps. What size resistor are you using to step-down the voltage to 2.9? "

I mean the value / size of this resistor !  ;)


I don't know :-[ Otherwise I'd have mine up and running :P

EDIT: I guess I can try and help what you mean. If there's any way for you to put a load on your PSU and KNOW that the load is like 10amps (since that's all your meter can read you said) through your resistor/pot at 2.9v, and you measure it and it's still 2.9v and 10amps, then I think you should probably be able to push the other 30amps through it. But, this is all a guess again, since this I don't know electrical stuff at all.

EDIT2: haha Too bad this thing doesn't output more amps! I like "precision!" http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-6115A-Precision-DCPower-Supply-0-50V-8A-50-100V-4A_W0QQitemZ360081481800QQihZ023QQcategoryZ58288QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Page 6, the first one is perfect, but needs too high of input voltage :\
http://www.kikusui.co.jp/common/product/pdf/pad-la.pdf

EDIT3: OK Here's basically what I'm talking about with small regulators. Notice the "Maximum Current", it's at the best, 2amps.
http://www.eleinmec.com/article.asp?20

Go here, then goto page 53. That's essentially what you're using, and their max current is 3a. A far cry from the 30-45 we need :S

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by MaxPain on 28.08.08 at 21:47:10
Solution to our problems:
SO We're going to have to get 2 PSU's with high 12v rail amperage and run them in parallel (yes, 2 PSUs, just like how Q3D did it!) and then run one of these to knock 12v down to 2.9v, a 9.1v Zener Diode.
http://octopart.com/info/Fairchild/1N5239B

The Zener Diode is what are used in IC components to step-down voltages. I wasn't able to find any 2.1v ones to utilize the 5v line though.

Then we'll be able to parallel the 3.3v as well and for sure have enough amps there too.

Now, for me, not so hard, I found a PSU with dual 12v rails totaling 33A, making for 66A for $17/ea. Should easily be enough for 1 81xx card. But for you m14, I'm not sure. They have cheap PSU's around you like that?

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 29.08.08 at 08:32:16
No, there are no PSU like that here.
But i will keep searching.

By using the 12V line you have 10 AMP less than on the 5V Line, but i think it shold be enough !
Please post some pictures if u made some progress  ;)

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by MaxPain on 29.08.08 at 18:12:11

m14radu wrote on 29.08.08 at 08:32:16:
No, there are no PSU like that here.
But i will keep searching.

By using the 12V line you have 10 AMP less than on the 5V Line, but i think it shold be enough !
Please post some pictures if u made some progress  ;)


No, I'll have much more than the 5v line. 2 PSU's = 66A where as the 1 PSU I was going to use only had 35A or so.

I won't be able to buy the stuff quite yet, but I'll for sure keep you posted when I do.

And even if you have another crap PSU that isn't all that powerful, but can equal enough on the 12v for amps, you'll be set as well. The ones with multiple 12v rails are the ones that end up putting out much more amps than others.


EDIT: BTW I figured I'd mention you should test out the ability of the diode setup by powering something that you know draws at like at least 5amps and see how it fairs.

Or if you have the money ($450), this is 150% what we need.
http://www.irf.com/technical-info/refdesigns/irdcip2003a-c.pdf

If you look at the design below, it runs in series, and to run 80A, from my understanding, you'd only need 2 chips, not all 4. Not only does it allow for the voltage we need, but it allows for the current throughput as well!

If that diode test fails, then I give up. Short of spending $450+ or making my own PSU (or the fat chance another comes on eBay and I have money at that time), I'm shit out of luck. Maybe I'll plug in that worthless Sensor Post Processor and see what it does on it's own.

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by MaxPain on 30.08.08 at 15:37:10
Been doing some reading, and apparently I was misinformed by my friend. 9.1v doesn't equal the drop the diode creates, but is what the diode allows through. So if it says it's a 9.1v diode, and we hook it up to a 12v power source only 2.9v is dropped. Not what we were going for. So we want to find a 2.9v diode, so that 9.1v is dropped from the 12v line.

Making it possibly easier to use a 5v rail still, since again, if we find a 2.9v diode, then we're putting out 2.9v. Should also keep the diode temperature way down.

Here's what I've been reading for some help:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_3/11.html

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 31.10.08 at 07:58:05
did u manage to start the board ?
any good news ?
;)

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by MaxPain on 25.11.08 at 00:54:39

m14radu wrote on 31.10.08 at 07:58:05:
did u manage to start the board ?
any good news ?
;)


Naw, not yet. No money to get the supplies. I could fib and get a test sample, but I'd have to create something elaborate to fill in these requirements:

Hi Clint,
We are the Emerson manufacture rep and I can work with the factory in regards to the sample.

Can you provide the following information, this is needed for the sample?

Company Name
Project/Application
EAU
Production Date

I did see that Mouser (authorized Emerson Distributor) currently has 102 pcs of stock for immediate delivery.  They can be reached at 1-800-346-6873


Thank You,

Kristine Melser
Mel Foster Company
Phone: 952-946-5140
Fax: 952-944-0634
Email: kristine@melfoster.com



It's in regards to this item:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=RMiEzKrVl1fxKnLTck7QFg%3D%3D

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by Kaitou on 30.11.08 at 17:04:00
My father in law works for emerson as an engineer. I already asked him about a power supply for the AAlchemy, he told me that this can be very expensive because it would be custom and in a limited quantity

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by MaxPain on 30.11.08 at 23:13:53

Tritop wrote on 30.11.08 at 17:04:00:
My father in law works for emerson as an engineer. I already asked him about a power supply for the AAlchemy, he told me that this can be very expensive because it would be custom and in a limited quantity


Well yea, if we went directly though Emerson for it. If HE could get a few custom one's, well he could sell them for a cheap price then. If Gary could  give him lots of detailed pics of the second PSU (not the main one for the rest of the computer) inside the case, I don't see why a 'clone' couldn't be made. All we need is a PSU that supports to right kind of active management (or whatever it is) and puts out 2.9v @ 35-75amps (for 1-2 card configs). What I've found will let me at least do the 2.9v @ 35amps, the only thing I can't say for sure on, is if it's active power management thinger is correct. I don't see it not working though, considering that m14radu got his to boot into windows simply using a potentiometer!

Title: Re: AAlchemy 8164
Post by m14radu on 26.12.08 at 19:07:50
I made this days some researches and tests - the ideea is to start the board by using two PSU.
Here are some details....

http://www.voodoo3dfx.com/Foro_V6k/viewtopic.php?t=118&start=15

Every feedback / advice is wellcome.

Regards.
Radu.

3dfx Archive » Powered by YaBB 2.4!
YaBB © 2000-2009. All Rights Reserved.