Okay everyone here are real pics of ATI's R600 GPU :)

http://www.quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/4818R600.jpg http://www.quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/4016R600_1.jpg http://www.quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/7238R600_2.jpg
http://www.quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/7490R600_3.jpg http://www.quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/2400r600mkl9.jpg http://www.quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/4016r600nyc6.jpg

Yes my friends this is the killer Chip which is gonna devistate a G80 with ease 8)

the ATi R600 has 2200 pins compared to the 1500 of the G8, this explain's it's 1024 Bit Ringbus memory controller and 512Bit GDDR4 memory interface.

Because that the core is laying diagonal might be the reason to make the PCB of the whole desihn shorter than 30cm :)

I got this from the dutch ATi topic.
http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/1176262/2

And the dutch got it from Beyond3D:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34676&page=29

Scroll three quaters down where user "Topman" writes the following:
"New photos.." ;)

Wow, huge die they've created. How much transistors does it have?

speculated to be 534 Mil if you read the topic of beyond 3D, and it would make sense too since it has 2204 balls to be precise since it's a ball grid array base.


The R580/R580+ which have the latest GPU layout from ATi at the moment they have 384 Mil Transistors which are used on the X1950 XT and XTX/ XTX CF cards.

So for the amount of transistors of the R600 see it this way:


Quote:

Originally Posted by Jawed  View Post: Comparing RV535 (80nm) against RV530 (90nm), both supposedly the same design (157M transistors), I get an area scaling of 87.5% for 80nm. If I apply that to R580, which is 352mm2 at 90nm, I get 308mm2. From there to 428mm2 (R600) is 139%. So a naive transistor count scaling for R600 puts it at 139% * 384 = 534M. Not many, huh? Jawed

that should make sense about the number of transistors for R600, which can be read on this page allmost at the bottom of the page
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34676&page=29

Please these are not true based facts yet, but if you follow thier calculations is should make sense.

Heh @Obi_Wan you beat me to the post! ;D

Sure looks like it's gonna' be a KEWL GPU though! 8)

I'm curious about what improvements they implemented compared to the Radeon 5xx Series chip...

Since the chip means tapeout complete, should be only a few months (if that Chip stepping shown actually works)

yeah  I also wonder how it would work in a battle field, though I do have a feeling it's gonna be something big, kinda used to that idea with ATi :)

R580 was a great improvemnet compared to R520 so I kinda have the feeling that this R600 is gonna give the same idea :)

So are we  about six months out from seeing this released in the retail market?

nope January 07 2007 is the release date so far Gamma ;) anyways as the rumors go around that was the most reliable date to believe then hehe
let;s hope ATi won't end like 3dfx did, I doubt it that they will end that way though.

wrote on 26.11.06 at 05:23:16:

let;s hope ATi won't end like 3dfx did, I doubt it that they will end that way though.

I don't think so. Nvidia bought 3dfx as a rival company, only to eliminate the biggest rival to that time. 3dfx did not have the fastest accelarator, but it still had a fair share of market and a few milions of fans worldwide. AMD bought ATI to strenghten it's position over Intel. I really dont think that AMD cares about graphics, it went for ATI because of the new chipsets. I assume that everything will be the same as it were in graphics, only the name has been changed (it may also be forgotten), but the support is going on...

well 3dfx did have the fastest hehe but it was never produced so you you are right in a certain point of view there hehe :)

for most 3dfx fans like us nvidia is the one that killed 3dfx, that's why not many of like NV stuff that much, they left a burnt mark behind.

But yeah AMD will keep the ATi brand name on thier VGA products, so ATi will remain an exsiting brand name thank the Force :)

wrote on 27.11.06 at 00:01:53:

But yeah AMD will keep the ATi brand name on thier VGA products, so ATi will remain an exsiting brand name thank the Force :)

As I was saying... ATI's history as a brand, there is nothing to thank the force for.  :( There's capitalism to thank to and worldwide monopoly. There is AMD graphics now, with ATI engineers working hard on it. Basicly, ATI cards, but AMD's the name ;)

Be as it may, I dislike Nvidia not only for destroying 3dfx, but also for disabling the highest image quality settings in drivers.
There was once a upon a time, a Nvidia card (TNT2 chipset) that had nice little detonator drivers, in which there was an option of mean anisotropic filtering. That card with that drivers could be set to have really nice and sharp 3D image quality that could even be comparable to LOD -1 (-2 is unreachable) on voodoo's. With the comming of Geforce series, it all went down - still there is no way to set the quality to the satisfying level. edit: except maybe for GF8800

ATI cards, on the other hand, allow that.

And Obi, do you really belive that Voodoo 5 6000 was faster then GF 3 ti500? Don't forget that GF3 ti500 was faster then Radeon 8500 (9000/9100/9200/9250)... And the lack of pixel shaders on Voodoo was not nice at all. If you think of Rampage - then it's something to speculate about and not claim...  :-/

Did I say it was faster than a GeForce Ti 500?

The Ti500 wasn't even out @ week 37 year 2000, that one came around end Q2 2001 ;)

The fastest thing NV had was thier GeForce2 Ultra [NV16] and nothing else and the 6K beated that one all rounds in most cases only the 6K never saw the day of light

the GeForce3 Ti 200 had about the same performance as a 6K in some cases, the Ti200 as Ti500 came end of Q2 2001

ATi's R200 was far more advanced than the NV20Ti as well since it has ShaderModel 1.4 as the NV20 chips only could do ShaderModel 1.2, in most cases the 8500 had a greater advantage for new games with Shader Model 1.4 support which even the GeForce4 Ti series was missing they only had ShaderModel 1.3, so the Radeon 8500 was then again the best bang for the buck.

Anyways this was far off topic, getting back to the R600 situation.

The R600 is gonna be something very big in most eyecandymodes it would crush a G80 SLI set too, since it's ram bandwidth is suggested to be between 140 and 162 GB per sec heh.

here a nice pic of an ATi R580 and R600 next to each other :)
http://img2.zol.com.cn/product/9/494/ceAGQZqiI6YHc.jpg

as you can see the R580 has lot's more resistors than R600 and that the R600 has been tilted by 45 degrees :)

wrote on 27.11.06 at 01:48:38:

The fastest thing NV had was thier GeForce2 Ultra [NV16] and nothing else and the 6K beated that one all rounds in most cases

Not true- In DirectX the V5-6000 gets it's butt kicked by the GF2 Ultra. Glide native games it would excel but the writing was already on the wall and programmers were already moving away from glide.

The V5-6000 was late to market by a year, it allowed NV to catch up. If it was released in early 2001 it would have gone up against the early GF3 cards and lost. If it came out in early 2000 like it should have it would have kicked butt for a year.

Pure and simple- 3dfx managment screwed up and that is the number one cause of 3dfx going under.

wrote on 27.11.06 at 01:48:38:

ATi's R200 was far more advanced than the NV20Ti as well since it has ShaderModel 1.4 as the NV20 chips only could do ShaderModel 1.2, in most cases the 8500 had a greater advantage for new games with Shader Model 1.4 support which even the GeForce4 Ti series was missing they only had ShaderModel 1.3, so the Radeon 8500 was then again the best bang for the buck.

Have you ever, ever, actually seen the difference between shader model 1.1 and 1.4 (let's not speak about 1.3, because it's allmost the same)? In games? I did not. I also had radeon 8500 and I am claiming that it's slower by the mile to GF3 ti500. And I did everything I could possibly do to it to make it faster (BIOS/voltmod, OC@ 315/315) with extra cooling. And it STILL was nothing compared to GF3. GF3 and GF4 Ti were unbelivably raw-power cards. You could have overclocked ti4200 to enormus levels and as such, that card was kicking the radeons 9600 ass, let alone 8500. It's just the way it is Obi, I'm sorry. :(

Sorry 4 the offtopic [/offtopic]

@ gdonovan:

The V6K beats the GF2U in some places, in some places it even nears a GeForce 3 if it's OpenGL, Glide or D3D, I read that on your benchmark page Gary, but in some places it's the otherway around. http://www.thedodgegarage.com/3dfx/bench_v6k.htm
Suppose it rocked mostly in Glide as OpenGL

Anyways it depends on what you run ofcourse, with FSAA the Voodoo5 cards were the best qua image quallity, it was FSAA done right, the image quallity was the best people have seen so far as what i have read in many other reviews of the Goddess.

But yeah you are right in many cases there ;)

@ Elfuego:

Sorry mate but if you would OC the 9600 Pro it would crush a Ti 4200, but what are you aiming at?
oh look at this review:
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/print.php?cid=3&id=855
In UT 2K3 the 9600 pro about doubs the performance of a Ti4200 ;)
http://www.hardwarezone.com/img/data/articles/2003/855/ut2003-fly-4x-fsaa.gif

Look at the dark blue marks for the 9600 Pro and the purple marks for the Ti4200, the 9600 Pro kinda pwnz the Ti4200 in almost every test, only when FSAA is enabled in some tests the i4200 wins simply becaus it has 4x 2 pipes and the 9600 Pro has 4x1 pipes

As where the 9600 Pro was a great performer in DX9 where as the GF4 Ti 4200 was limited, don't forget it only had 4 pipes and 4 vertex shader units.

The R300 & RV350 were adapted with Shader Model 2.0 as the NV25/28 series only Shader Model 1.3.

I think the R600 is gonna be a killer chip, it's gonna shock everyone when it releases :) Like R300 was, R600 might be, have a good feeling about that.

wrote on 27.11.06 at 12:42:24:

@ gdonovan: The V6K beats the GF2U in some places, in some places it even nears a GeForce 3 if it's OpenGL, Glide or D3D, I read that on your benchmark page Gary, but in some places it's the otherway around. http://www.thedodgegarage.com/3dfx/bench_v6k.htm Suppose it rocked mostly in Glide as OpenGL

It also has the advantage of a very powerful CPU, an advantage it did not have to in 2000.

In 2000 the T'NL of the GF2 had the upper hand with the fastest CPU being a 800-900 mhz chip it was a huge advantage over the 3dfx products.

If you check out the other benchmark page I did with a 1.0 ghz Celeron a GF2MX beats the heck out of a V5-6000 in several benchmarks.

yeah totally right there, but with the AthlonXP Barton 3000+ setup it was kinda of a reversed world for the NV chips, there were thoughts that a even an AthlonXP  Barton 3000+ isn't even powerfull enough for a V6K to render with. :-X

I really hope that the AGP x8 Dual Opteron boards will support a Voodoo3 like you asked earlier, then the Voodoo 5 6000 could show it's upper sides.

hehe I know we all went offtopic as I did too oh well doesn't matter :)

I really wonder how ATi is gonna cool the Mobile R600 aka R600M, I mean 534 Mil transistor's is a heck of a lot to cool some even mentioned 617 Mil transistors :-X

Or will they reduce the amount of Transistors like they did with the R420? aka M18 Mobillity Radeon 9800?

a X1800 XT Platinum Edition had an R420 with 160 Mil Transistors my M18 R420 has only 110 Mil Transistors, would the R600M get the same type of degrade?

wrote on 27.11.06 at 12:42:24:

Sorry mate but if you would OC the 9600 Pro it would crush a Ti 4200, but what are you aiming at?

I am aiming at that the GF4 Ti was ahead of it's time, as well as Radeon 9500/9700 (not 9600!) when they arrived. It was a great card and it still is. Many people play Oblivion with it just fine (without extra effects, of course).

Here, u take a look at this:
http://www.ixbt.com/video2/images/r9600pro/3dm01-marks-aa-anis.png
yellow VS pink (dark blue); yellow is GF4 ti 4200, pink is a normal 9600 pro and  dark blue is overclocked 9600 pro. Please, dont forget that most ti4200 can be overclocked to ti4600 level and even more. When oveclocked - it becomes the beast that eats (overclocked) radeons for breakfast.

I always respected Codecreatures benchmark... take a look at this too:
http://www.octools.com/articles/chaintech/apogee/code1.jpg

And for the end, ti4200 is two years older then radeon 9600, so what's there to discuss about? I know that there is no shader model 2.0 support in ti4200, but in raw power - it's still a great card.

back to the topic: I hope that new Radeon is going to be good, I hope that for AMD's sake and for our's sake. It would be a shame to have monopoly in graphics market (nv domination).

@ elfuego

Read this before you complain
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=264

and stop polluting this topic, if the R600 isn't your thing, Please do not intefere

I wonder if the R600's PCB is gonna get 12 layers also? just like 3dfx did with their Rev.A 3900 V6K's, Since that the R600 GPU has over the 500 mil transistors, a 12 layer PCB might be needed for extra stabillity as power flow?

wrote on 27.11.06 at 15:08:32:

hehe I know we all went offtopic as I did too oh well doesn't matter :)

Chill out a bit ;) I am not complaining; R9600 is indeed better then ti4200, but please do take a look at this: http://users.vtkom.net/~benchmark/

in fact, the only interesting part is this:

http://users.vtkom.net/~benchmark/html/gf4ti4200.htm //overclocked ti4200 on a AthlonXP Tbred B 2.5Ghz (16605 marks)
http://users.vtkom.net/~benchmark/html/radeon9600.htm //overclocked R9600 XT on a Athlon 64, Newcastle, 2.7Ghz (16760 marks)

Of course, in newer 3Dmark 03, with the lack of shader model 2.0 support, ti4200 is giving away:
http://users.vtkom.net/~benchmark/html/gf4ti4200.03.htm // 2132 marks
http://users.vtkom.net/~benchmark/html/radeon9600.03.htm //5355 marks

But it's still one hell of a card and you know it. The difference between the cards varies from "miserable" (oldies) to "not that great" in actuall games. Before you dig out more links check this out too: http://www.digital-daily.com/video/vga-roundup/

And I wouldn't call a little NV-ATI-3DFX chatter pollution. But it is a bit offtopic. If you think that it should not be here, then let this (and all other offtopics) be deleted or moved. I will do it myself if you only but ask. Cheers friend, no harm done  ;)

Apologies accepted elfuego :)

Got some more R600 news here, okay did get it from the Inquirer oh well @ least something to look at I thought :)
http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=35995

"The 500+ GFLOPS-producing monster chip is manufactured on a 80nm manufacturing process, which allows the chip maker to squeeze more transistors on the silicon"

"ATI on the other hand, took the risky road, pulled 80nm manufacturing process from the drawing board onto silicon and produced a 720-million transistor monster that is currently seeking its final clock speed."

Well quite something it does more that 500GFLOPS, it's 0.08 Micron process based and houses an amazing 720 Mil transistors alot more that 534Mil of before heh!
Now AMD.ATi is trying to find a good clockspeed for it, I reckon 750Mhz Core/2500Mhz for the ram aka 1250Mhz DDR.

Just a speculation there :)

BTW here ATi's new logo 8)
http://www.3dfxzone.it/news/puntatore.php?uid=4046

The old one:
http://www.hwsetup.it/public/files/news4046_1.jpg

The new one :P
http://www.hwsetup.it/public/files/news4046_2.png

The new one has more style, though the old has the nice chrome boarder around it :)

What would be the name of a new Ati R600 cards

I guess that the serie name would be X2** like the fastest card would be named X2900 XTX

the naming would be like the following:

Enthousiast:

X2800 XTX
X2800XT

High End:

X2800 XL
X2800 Pro

Mainstream:

X2600XT
X2600 Pro

Budget stream:

X2300 XT
X2300 LE

The refresh of the AMD.ATI R600 would most likely be the R650/R680

which would create the following groupings with product names:


Enthousiast:

X2900 XTX
X2900XT

High End:

X2900 Pro
X2900 GT

Mainstream:

X2700XT
X2700 Pro

Budget stream:

X2350 XT
X2350 LE

X2600 pro sounds perfect for me ;) just waiting that it will be published 8)

well got this info from the dutch ATI topic :)


Quote:

ATI newest hearsay R600 operating frequency double 1GHz achieves Comes family's of from the actuation news Today originates us from the anonymous news to learn ATi new generation of DX10 graph chip R600, already achieved the double G goal. The so-called double G goal is the core operating frequency achieves 1GHz, reveals saves the operating frequency to achieve 1GHz (equivalent DDR2GHz). At present the double G operating frequency type embraces in PCB the very long R600 achieved, at present also not clear ordinary PCB length R600 type card operating frequency. The R600 type card at present already delivered partial AIB to reveal the card merchant. Moreover, according to the newest hearsay, R600 uses outside 512-bit the annular main line (to support 512MB/1024MB/2048MB frame buffer), 1024-bit internal ring-like main line. 2.2GHz GDDR4 reveals saves, the peak value reveals saves band width 140.8GB/s. In constructs 128 scalar ALU, operating frequency 2GHz, each second 512 billion colouring operation. R600 integrates 16 ROP, operating frequency 1GHz, TMU unit 32, operating frequency 1GHz. Certainly, the R600 final actual parameter must take AMD the ATi announcement official parameter as.

it seemed to be one of the latest stories about the R600 and it's memory support, layout and memory capacity.

First benchmarks of the R600...

http://www.3dfxzone.it/news/puntatore.php?uid=4161

I had to link the 3DfxZone news story, as the original news source is currently down due to people trying to access it!

Well since my computerclub play's F.E.A.R. as main game my X1900 XTX + X1950 XTX CFE setup is fast enough, no need for a R600 for that game hehe.
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9508/atir600fear16001200qt6.jpg

Only I wonder how it's DX9.0c performance will be with FLight Simulator X :) Which runs very sweet on my R580/R580+ CFE set but if a single R600 can do it alot better, I wonder how much that will differ to my R580+R580+ CFE setup, since that single R600 would consume alot lesser energy than the dual R580+R580+ CFE setup I use now also.

And also R600 is DX10.1 aka DX10.0b compliant instead of DX10.0a which the G80 only is. PWNed  ;D ;D ;D

ATi always had the upper hand in designing Ultra high end chips, thier R580 has about 9x the physical rendering power as that of a single G71 GTX and thier RV560 [X1600XT] has about 4 x the physical rendering power of a G71 GTX, so on the Physics side ATi has a greater upper hand than NV,, just imagine what a R600 would do, dual R580 or R580+ would do about 16 to 18 times the Physical rendering power of a G71 GTX, that's rendering Pure Physics ony hehe.


Also interesting :)

   * 64 4-Way SIMD Unified Shaders, 128 Shader Operations/Cycle
   * 32 TMUs, 16 ROPs
   * 512 bit Memory Controller, full 32 bit per chip connection
   * GDDR3 at 900 MHz clock speed (January)
   * GDDR4 at 1.1 GHz clock speed (March, revised edition)
  * Total bandwidth 115 GB/s on GDDR3 aka X2800 XT ???
   * Total bandwidth 140 GB/s on GDDR4 aka X2800 XTX ???
   * Consumer memory support 1024 MB
   * DX10 full compatibility with draft DX10.1 vendor-specific cap removal (unified programming)
   * 32FP [sic] internal processing
   * Hardware support for GPU clustering (any x^2 [sic] number, not limited to Dual or Quad-GPU)
   * Hardware DVI-HDCP support (High Definition Copy Protocol)
   * Hardware Quad-DVI output support (Limited to workstation editions)
   * 230W TDP PCI-SIG compliant

there will be a GDDR3 model with 115 Gb per sec equiped with 512Bit GDDR3 and a 140 GB per sec equiped  512Bit GDDR4 model, I suppose that the GDDR3 model is the X2800XT and the GDDR4 model the X2800 XTX, just a rough guess :)

Quite amazing, but I wonder what kind of Power consumption this Card draws both under load and in idle (important to save energy during Deskop / Work times)

Well the specs do state this:
 * 230W TDP PCI-SIG compliant

so I suspect that under load is under the 230 watts, not bad for a furball like that ;)

The AA Quallity also seems better on the ATi R600 card, especially also better performance at higher reso's in 3D mark 06 for instance:
http://level505.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/ati-r600-3dmark05-16001200.jpg
:
"This is an impressive result: ATI’s R600 scores about 8.2% better than nVidia’s current flagship, the GeForce 8800GTX, and it leads to the assumption that the card performs even better in higher resolutions. As said above, we will test on higher resolutions shortly. The graphics quality of the R600 is similar to the GeForce 8800GTX, while AA seems to work a bit better on short distances."

The drivers that were used were also beta based, so that could also only improve, thereby much better performance, look how 3dfx worked on the Voodoo 5 6000 as example, okay only that never came but the idea is the same.

"We have to note again that these results come from a pre-release driver which has not been optimized yet."

My theory is that the X2800XT has the 900Mhz GDDR3 which would be 1800Mhz DDR and the X2800 XTX has the faster 1100Mhz GDDR4 which would be 2200Mhz DDR.

Januari 8 will show a test of a CrossFire setup of 2 R600 cards, let's hope for some pics too!
"Once we have a secondary R600 card and can run an R600 CrossFire Test, we will also test how the card is performing against two GeForce 8800GTX in SLI mode. So check back frequently for article updates. Most probably we will extend this article with two R600 cards around January 8th, 2007."

http://level505.com/2006/12/30/the-full-ati-r600-test/2/

In Lost Cost the R600 comes to power all the way and leaves it's counterparts behind with ease.
"Particle simulation is done quite realistically, and when played at higher resolutions, i.e. 2560×1600, this game is a blast. However, we stick to our 1600×1200 test for now, and proudly present you the following frame rates:"
http://level505.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/ati-r600-hl2lc-16001200.jpg
"These frame rates underline the extensive shader capabilities of ATI’s R600.
Unlike the graphics quality in Battlefield 2, the R600 shines in Half-Life 2: Lost Coast with excellent AA and AF processing at almost no impact on frame rates.
The HDR rending quality of the R600 is excellent and adds substantially to the graphics; future owners of ATI’s upcoming flagship will love the graphics this card is capable of rendering. ATI definitely did lots of improvements here, which surprisingly does not compromise the frame rate. Two thumbs up!

Until now, the R600 is a clear winner."

the one that has been tested is the one with 1GB GDD3 @ 900Mhz aka 1800Mhz DDR ;) so the scores should be refering to the ATi Radeon X2800XT model, the XTX model would be that card with 1GB 512Bit GDDR4 @ 1100Mhz aka 2200Mhz DDR, that card is gonna be the dream card for my part hehe, can't wait to get my hands on that thing espeacially in CF mode, damn, that's gonna be lot's of fun riding it. ;D

I've heard of another delay! is this true :o

Dunno AMD's official launch for the card would be January 22nd 2007, but yes there are rumors ofcourse which state that the R600 aka X2800 series will be launched mid of March. heh.

But remember rumors should be seen a gossip nothing more ;)

okay it aint no R600 yet but here is the Dual X1950 Pro 2x 256MB GDDR3 card, heh looks like that ASUS AN7800GT Dual thing they did about a year ago heh:

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/3519_godfather2.jpg http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/3521_godfather3.jpg http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/3522_godfather.jpg
here the source of that Godfather thing from Sapphire lol
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5624

and here a picture of how the Rev.A0 First R600's looked like!

Might even make our V6K's look small heh!
http://resources.vr-zone.com/newspics/Jan07/08/R600.jpg

I think it's a bogus post from VR Zone, let's just prey to Jedi Master Yoda that this will not happen, man I'm happy I took the X1900XTX + X1950 XTX CF setup! heh they look dwarfed compared to that uhm thing. ::) ::)
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4461

But as usual VR-Zone has a very good reputation for NV news but on the ATi side it's one of the most unreliable ATi sources, a member of the dutch ATi forum told me this, he also made all 48 topics ;) He claims that this info is from an Nvidia employee who hasn't have the brains about ATi's upcomming monster.
It's because that the most faulty ionfo of ATi cards came from VR-Zone, nvidiots I think lol ::)

"VR-Zone staat er om bekend vrij nauwkeurig te zijn wanneer het aankomt op informatie wat betreft nVidia (vanwege insider connecties). Wat betreft ATI informatie hebben ze echt een hele slechte reputatie aangezien in het verleden heel wat (verkeerde) ATI informatie gewoon van nVidia kwam.

Dit nieuws lijkt echter vrij 'neutraal', maar ondanks dat toch met een korreltje zou nemen."

we should take it as a load of bull ;)

Crikey! That thing's bigger than a bulldogs dangly bits! :o

LOL! ;D

wrote on 10.01.07 at 19:53:44:

Crikey! That thing's bigger than a bulldogs dangly bits! :o LOL! ;D

remember it's from VR-Zone where all the Pro-VN fans are and that info came basicly from an Nvidian user, so most ;ikely it's a false image ;)

Just to give an idea how Nvidians make people believe on false info just to promote thier cards ::)

Regardless of how valid that CAD Image might be (or not).

I've too read in numerous places that the R600 PCB is gigantic and will indeed not fit in all PC cases.

Since we're talking AMD (and I already got a Radeon 1900XT ;) ), I'm rather waiting for the new CPU releases *g*

yes FalconFly there are many stories that the R600 would be big but that was only for the Rev.A0 prototypes the first revisions ;)

The Rev.A1 prototypes were about 27.2CM in lenght, a little shorter than the 8800 GTX cards, I got this info from the dutch ATi site which is very reliable of ATi information.

But yes your R580 XT will do fine for the upcomming years, so will my R580 XTX / R580+ XTX CFE CrossFire Setup, not planinig to go to a new chip again, I'm looking for a CPU upgrade also an Opteron 185 S939 cpu, it's an older sockety but I'm quite sure I will find one, there is always ebay hehe.

oh btw the cards will keep the name ATi Radeon Graphics, so we are talking ATi again ;)

wrote on 05.12.06 at 12:16:50:

BTW here ATi's new logo 8) http://www.3dfxzone.it/news/puntatore.php?uid=4046 The old one: http://www.hwsetup.it/public/files/news4046_1.jpg The new one :P http://www.hwsetup.it/public/files/news4046_2.png The new one has more style, though the old has the nice chrome boarder around it :)

So @ least our ATi wonders will keep thier sweet red ATi logo's and hopefully the red PCB as well :)

HW-Setup.it got a DOC on the specs... ;D

http://www.hwsetup.it/public/files/56_reg1.doc

OR direct from Sapphire...

http://www.sapphiretech.com/uk/pressfiles/56_reg1.doc

WHOA! :o 8)

Very nice find Paulpsomiadis !! 8)

Chipset              
2 x ATI RADEON  X1950 PRO [2x RV570]        

Engine clock      
2x 580MHz [580Mhz per RV570 Core]        

Shader units      
36 + 36 = 72        

Pixel Pipelines      
12 + 12 = 24        

Memory clock      
1400 MHz GDDR3        

Memory interface      
256-bit        

Memory Support      
2x 512MB = 1024 MB        

Cooling      Active
dual slot cooling        

Bus Interface      
PCI-Express x16        

Variable display outputs      
DVI-I / DVI-I / TV out        

Max 3D resolution        
2560x1600 (dual-link DVI)
1024 x 768 (TV out)        

Hardware Features      
DirectX® 9
ShaderModel 3.0        

Software Feature      
ATI AvivoTM        

The ultimate GeForce 7950 GX2 killer! NV is gonna be PWNed big time with these beauties Whoo Hoo , Crikey that's gonna hurt 'em!

well my friends it's finally so far, here a small preview of how Ruby's mouth will look like on the ATi R600 VPU, and it's just the lips them selves which have the max detail ;)
http://img.hexus.net/v2/beanz/ruby_lips/R600_ati_ruby_hexus.jpg

here compared to the R520 aka X1800 series:
http://www.tomshw.it/guides/graphic/20040504/images/hdg-02.jpg

here the preview it's self :)
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=7729

Shame they didn't use a higher res image compared to the R520 version... :-/

...also the smile is the other way round... :P

Ah well, here's looking forward to R600! :D

VR-Zone are pushine their 'ultra long card' story again... ::)

http://sg.vr-zone.com/?i=4529

We shall see... ;)

remember that when technology made all things smaller?
that time is gone now
ATi R600:
http://resources.vr-zone.com/newspics/Jan07/08/R600.jpg
ATi Rage XL:
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/7042/ragexl001rx7.jpg

see you can compare size directly with those images because pic scale is almost same

its as long as a Voodoo5 6000AGP

its bigger, but 100.000 times faster ::)

do you still think that R600 is released at same time with Vista, seems to be that lauch will be delayed 'till March

please don't tkae the gossip from VR-Zone for real ::)

That info is from a Nvidian and another thing the reputation on new ATi info from VR-Zone is one of the most reliable places to read that, so don't take it that serious please!

VR-Zone also very pro nVidia as anti ATi so don't take their gossip for real for newer ATi designs.

Either way, they should have thier Vista drivers fixed. I blew out two cards using Vista and the beta drivers.

Either way it doesn't matter I'm not going Vista at all. I'll be switching over to a Linux distro before Vista. Hell, even Mac is getting some better game support so I might go that route as well. XP for me for now though, at least for a long while.

As it is though, it's expensive, it's bloated and it's buggy. They are in beta testing for the first SP already if that tells you anything.

If MS wants to cut down on pirated copies, they should have the license agreements for family. As it is it's way to expensive. There pricing the Home Ultra addition for 259 for it. Well make a family pack for 309.99 but allow you to install on up to three or five pc's. Almost every house has one pc, many more have more then one.

I know one of the arguments is that the "Average" home user will just go out and buy a new pc with Vista on it already and negate the whole issue. This should still be an option. I've got 4 pc's with XP on them. Three of those are Vista ready. Am I spending 777 dollars on three upgrades? No. Can I even afford to? No. Will I ever be upgrading because of this? No.

Allowing a family option for this would cut down alot on piracy. At least IMO.

Any how, I went off topic, sorry.   (/rant off)  :P

no probs thougfh I do agree with your Vista thing.

Vista Premium is about 169 euro's here kinda pathetic for an OS.

I'm sticking to my XP pro USA copies too, not go'n for a MAC or so they don't have as much game support as XP does no way heh, even the graphics cards for MAC are very behind squedule.

as for linux, very bad ATi GFX support would need a GeForce for that, then I'm like No thanx!! I would terribly miss my ATi Control panels!

SO It's WinXP for my part, ATI allready has good drivers for Vista that problem seemed to have been fixed check here Jan :)
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/windows_vista_performance_amd_catalyst_7.1/

there seem to be many improvements :)
http://images.tweaktown.com/imagebank/amdcat71vista_03.jpg

Hm, I must say the current CCC loading times are quite pathetic.

ATI should have never used the bloated .NET for a Driver, IMHO their biggest (Driver-)mistake of the last years.

A good Driver is compact and uses absolutely minimal resources.

In the space any current Video Card Driver is using, we used to have room for complete 3D Retail Games no so long ago.

heh there are omega drivers for that, ATi Tray Tool rules!
Only for CrossFire setups I'd say use ATi Tool [ATi Tool is different that ATi Tray Tool, just to keep in mind]

only when you have a differential CF setup like me an ATi X1900XTX + X1950 XTX CFE thenn the Catalyst Control Center is a must, which is kinda the downside.

anyways PC"s of today are quite fast enough for the CCC, but yes it's pretty ghey that you need NET Framework 2.0 to make it work, pretty messy way to make use of a control panel.

though the NV drivers look worse espeacially the new skin they use, that isn't heaven too, then I rather prefer the ATI CCC, @ least it works and the layout is more logical.

Remember the old control Panel guys, now THAT was the best sollution ever.

wrote on 30.01.07 at 01:34:01:

only when you have a differential CF setup like me an ATi X1900XTX + X1950 XTX CFE thenn the Catalyst Control Center is a must, which is kinda the downside.

ATI's drivers always were a PITA.

The custom Omega drivers, however - are really very user friendly indeed! :D

Which is why me, @Obi_Wan and (probably) most of the ATI card owners use these instead of the standard ATI drivers! ;D 8)

Also they use the old style 'control panel' rather than the ghey CC .NET rubbish... ::) :P

LoL I use ATi Catalyat 6.12 no problems with CrossFire setups, it's that some lads don't know how to config them ::)

when updating to a new driver aways remove the old ones and the remains in the C:\ATi folder , aftet that re boot and install the newer ones.

I have been usng ATi cards since the 9700 Pro and till now now problems, there isn't nothing wrong with ATi as Omega drivers, I kinda find the Nvidian driver A.P.O.C.

crappy 2D image quallity as crappy 3D, nah it's3dfx or ATi here, I prefer High Quallity not Moderate Quallity ;)

wrote on 30.01.07 at 16:25:56:

LoL I use ATi Catalyat 6.12 no problems with CrossFire setups, it's that some lads don't know how to config them ::)

Excuse me?

Clicking on the graphics properties and getting a blue screen crash on a fresh OS & driver install is rediculous.

lol not everyone has that .

NV drivers are crap imho as many other ATi users think that.

no need to be excused. it such talk that all ATi drivers are bad a PITA sounds more like typical Anti ATi behaviour ...

If the ATi were so bad why are there so many ATi users?

It's because you don't like ATi drivers that is your opinion, no probs there, but don't make it a point overall, since everyone has their own opinion on what is best for their situations, if it's ATi or Nvidia.

Sorry mate I am no way stepping back to NV, my experience with them is like yours with ATi if you'd like to see it that way.  >:(

1) As some who owns both ATI and Nvidia products I can clearly state with some authority that the Nv drivers are generally more stable than the ATI drivers.

Note I said DRIVERS- Nothing about image quality, options etc.

I use two machines every day- One has ATI X850, the other a 6600GT. The one with the Nv board gives me fewer graphics issues than the ATI machine.

2) "beacuse x amount of people use it, it must be good" is a piss poor arguement.

If that were a truism then you should pitch your current internet provider and get AOL.

there is no proof that their drivers are not stable lol, still can't agree there sorry ;D

then again Why are there so many ATi users ;)


AOL no thanx this is Europe mate ;) I use Trillian much cleaner.

I have 4 systems all with ATI cards:

P4 S423 1700
ATi 9550 AGP 256MB + Omega 7.01
WinXP Pro NL SP2

AXP 2700+
ATi X800 XT PE AGP 256MB + Omega 6.03
Win2K Pro USA SP4

P4 HT 3400
ATI M18 MR9800 AGP 256MB + Omega 6.03
WinXP Pro USA  SP2.

A64 X2 4400+
ATi X1900XTX PCI-E 512MB + ATi X1950XTX CrossFire Edition PCI-E 512MB in CrossFire Setup + ATi Catalyst 6.12 WHQL
WinXP Pro USA SP2

And, really, I have never had troubles here. all my other 80 contacts use ATi cards even they never had troubles, still don't get your negative drift.

it's because your experience is negative don't effect others with it, it's not natural and unfair.

wrote on 30.01.07 at 17:07:12:

there is no proof that their drivers are not stable lol, still can't agree there sorry

Haave no proof? I have a system as proof, sorry.


Quote:

then again Why are there so many ATi users ;)

I'll repete since you are being dense- Numbers of users do not equate something as "good"

It's a false logic argument and I even provided an example why. Millions of people use AOL as thier ISP, that doesn't mean I'll be using that service just because others don't know what a real ISP is.


Quote:

it's because your experience is negative don't effect others with it ,it's not natural and unfair.

Don't be an zealot, it's distastful and I'm not the only one.

Fair? I have an ATI board that doesn't function proper under a "supported" OS with a clean install.

Yes you have one and so do many other millions of people that don't have your strange problems with theirs.

Number do have proof of a good pruduct, but oh well suppose your opinion is different there, I'm fine with that.

It's because you have a problem with it don't through it over the other's fence, as I never have problems with mine  ;)

Use Omega Driver 6.03 it should fix your problems, since this driver is the best for the R4.xx series VPU's, your VPU is a R480 :)
http://www.ngohq.com/home.php?page=Files&go=cat&dwn_cat_id=14&go=giveme&dwn_id=270

click that url and the download will start in few seconds :)

when installing this driver don't install the ATi Tray Tool use Radlinker instead ;)
http://downloads.guru3d.com/downloadget.php?id=609&file=4&evp=c324754d9171eea7cab965bedef53751

You are being dense again.

I paid for a product and support and ATI isn't providing what I paid for.

Only one huh?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=problem+with+ATI+driver

sja

dense sorry can't agree there.

well why do the people I know have no problems with them now and why is everything aimed at me?

Since you have troubles with it don't chuck at me mate.

ATi cards are my choice and maybe not yours, use NV stuff and stop complaining.

this problem has occured in the ATi topic too, we tried to explain to them bt they just didn't listen and went their way , well that's too bad, they are just feeling sorry for them selves just because they can't get their ATi card working propperly, teh n00bs

Anyways I sense a flame war comming about this though not gonna join it since it's pointless to discuss.

My cards are from ASUS and Sapphire they have very good reputations with warranty services, they are things I research before I buy ;)
Like XFX, ASUS, Gainward and Leadtek are fro GeForce Cards.

a problem in Doom3 lol that's like getting the old cows out of a creek mate, if you look up old storries I'm quite sure there are tons of NV problems too, stay relistic please , sigh.
PWNed
http://www.google.nl/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=nl&q=nvidia+problems&meta=&btnG=Google+zoeken

seems like you are being Pro NV more than ANti ATi right ;)

And really I won't go in to this, it frikk'n pointless

wrote on 30.01.07 at 18:01:22:

well why do the people I know have no problems with them now and why is everything aimed at me?

Because you are the one insiting I have a singular problem.

You forget I have both a direct from ATI 9800pro and a X850, a graphics zealot I'm not.

My recent purchase of a 6600GT was made because the board actually works under the "supported" operating systems listed unlike the 9800pro.

neither am I a zealot , really I never heard of that wierd word :-X and yeaps I'm like 9 hours a day online, so kinda obvious I'm the only of few posting.

But uhm have you given that Omega 6.03 + radlinker a shot yet?

please do it really works best woth 9800 & X8.xx series cards, my advice Gary.

Anyways You have good experiences with NV okay, no probs with that, I have good experiences with ATi, uhm any probs with tha?

Please remember that everyone has thier own choice on what they are using okay.


the 9800 Pro works fine under 2K + XP Pro, it's not a Voodoo card please remmeber that ;) under 98SE it should work, but since that OS is so out dated and in most cases unstable and packedwith BSOD's it's not adviced to be used as for the 6600GT it also is well supported under 2K & XP and later OSes.

I have had the 9800 Pro like 9700 Pro an the 6800GT the 6600GT's bigger brother and to be honest the support under the OSes 2K ands XP were perfect on those 9700 and 9800 Pro cards as the 6800GT went better under XP than 2K.

The Omega Drivers for the ATi's rocked and they still do today, they simply outclass the ATi ones and NV drivers for thier cards. there are Omega drivers for NV cards as well, only it's not being supported since Omega didn't get the license to carry on with NV drivers which is a great shame, even they were better than the official NV drivers.

but anyways I'd say give that Omega 6.03 a shot, @ least try it in your words then :)

I don't want to be an enemy of no one here just have different tastes for Main VGA cards aka ATi cards.

wrote on 30.01.07 at 18:17:29:

neither am I a zealot , really I never heard of that wierd word

Zealot = fanboy with no room with different point of view.

I am no fanboy http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/792/traantjeeu5.jpg  come on, just telling you that ATi drivers are good, and really if they were that bad like you told me I would of got something else and heh that my experience with NV cards + drivers is a very bad one like yours is with ATi cards and thier drivers the only one being a fanboy would certainly be you.

People that call lads fanboys must ask that themselves first, since they are the ones that are teh fanboys which sounds like typical nVidiot behaviour lalala.

wrote on 30.01.07 at 18:31:00:

I am no fanboy

Perhaps you should review the contents of this thread, it speaks for itself.

wrote on 30.01.07 at 03:31:06:

ATI's drivers always were a PITA.

you were saying, sorry mate but that sounds pretty Pro NV to me don't you think?

I am no way a fanboy hahaha don't make me laugh, my dad's PC has my good ole Leadtek GeForce 6800 he has  a nice Sempron64 2800+ I have installed the latest NV driver on it, put the settings to classic style.

ran 3D mark 2001SE and it crashed!!! argghh why this?? ran some ther driovers even 84.21 WHQL and it kept on crashing, hmm not that relianble I thought, I put in the ATi 9550 AGP and all troubles were gone installed that with ATi cat 6.12WHQL and 3D mark ran perfectly.

so stopping bugging me with that I'm a bloody FanBoy because it ain't like that it's just of bad experience with NV cards that I use ATi it's the best alternative I have found besides 3dfx ofcourse.

stop attacking people that use ATi cards and by that calling them fanboy's such a ghey like behaviour and not accepted by most lads.

Thread locked.

Sorry, but I see no reason to cancel this discussion that way.

Opinions are there to be shared and naturally differ. No reason to lock anything.

Everyone knows Obi likes ATI (so do I), and everyone knows that many others do not. Nothing to get exited about IMHO, that's plain normal (?)

The only thing some may throw at others might be a bit of fanboy-ism, but that's not a crime (remember most of us were that way with 3dfx, many still are, so why not with ATI or NVidia ? ) ;)

Exactly! :)

3dfx is still our main priority and it always will live on deep in our hearts.

We all have our different ways.

wrote on 30.01.07 at 20:10:55:

Sorry, but I see no reason to cancel this discussion that way. Opinions are there to be shared and naturally differ. No reason to lock anything.

I have no problem having a discussion with people who have different points of views but when they are just not being reasonable with provided examples and facts I see no point in continuing.

To have over 300 3dfx boards and to imply I'm sort of a nvdiot is about as rediculous as it gets.

I paid for a product (9800pro) from ATI and it simply DOES NOT work with my chosen OS as ATI stated it would at the time of purchase. Their suggestion to "upgrade my OS" is not going to happen as I run some applications THAT ONLY run on W98.

Hell I have a few that will only function under Win95, even Win98 won't work.

To be bashed after popping out $250 for product and support and not getting what was advertised is beyond the pale. To further suggest trying 3rd party drivers for support I paid for is further insulting.

The 9800 line simply isn't suitable for Win98, the Geforce 6 and some 7 series cards *are* which is why my daily use box sports a 6600GT. It works without crashes, control panels taking 10-20 seconds to open or net framework drivers from MS.

If paying for a device and expecting it to work without hours of troubleshooting is unreasonable then call me a nvidot.

Gary please don't take things that seriously :-/

Okay that I called you an nvidiot was because the way i read your posts, they read very negative in my mind as my friend who sat beside me.

Here in the The Netherlands we have had multiple threats like that in the ATi, Nvidia, XGI, S3, Matrox as 3dfx threads and it came very well accross to your way of posting, but no offense there it's just the way I read them, do remember this is a multi language place things that others read you read or I read may come accross alot differently.

And yes I agree the support under 98SE is worse on ATi cards as nvidia ones very true there, but under 2000 Pro and up it jest get's alot better hereby means that you don't come up with pathetic posts like:

wrote on 30.01.07 at 03:31:06:

ATI's drivers always were a PITA.

Sorry mate but that are things that ATi users and I personally don't accept especially from an Admin! You should accept that there are people that use ATi cards and that never have have the problems you do have, you should there by asking for help not spread silly quotes like that, which can get people's minds confused by giving them a negative point of view from your side.

And really I am willing to help whenever possible.

Some stupid ATi versus NV thing can easily put to humanoids in lot's of confusion and traumatic problems, which actually isn't needed imho.

And really I am not a ATi fanBoy, it's that I use them because I have my good reasons that they seem to work better for the apps I need them for and yes I will always like thier drivers better than the NV ones, but even that shouldn't be a crime, just a personal experience and also my opinion on that case.

Since I just recieved a very nice Leadtek GeForce4 Ti 4600 Ultra AGP 128MB from a good friend and that one will be a very nice card for my second retro system ;) so for advice for drivers I could ask you since your experience with NV cards is that good, right ;)

Anyways Sorry for the long post, and sorry for calling you a nVidiot, this whole post was something that I just had to let go of.

The best thing we all should do is avoid things like this and move on, there are much more important problems in the universe than what has happened here.

@Gary

Odd, I had Win98SE and a Radeon9700pro (later 9800pro) at that time (before migrating to Win2000).

Never had any serious Driver issues, except those I created myself (moving between original ATI Drivers, Omega and back).

I even made original GLquake timedemo -demo1 benches with that conifg for fun, so technically, Win95 games ran just fine with the Radeon and its drivers at that time.

But using older-than-advertised Windows always needed some manual User tweaking at some point, all Card makers only "officiallly" supported Win9x until some point.

wrote on 31.01.07 at 04:29:27:

But using older-than-advertised Windows always needed some manual User tweaking at some point, all Card makers only "officiallly" supported Win9x until some point.

This was a clean install "by the numbers" with no applications and the current ATI drivers would bring the box down while opening the control panel.

Not much room for tweaking there.

Same box with Windows 2000, no problem.

Spent hours trying to work the problem, ATI response was to upgrade OS.

Hey Gary can you explain what problems you were seeing?

But yeah I know the problem too upgrade to another OS  heh back then I was like yeah right it's gonna cost me more cash if I would do that, but It could also be the motherboard you use?

Just a guess there, since that my experience with 2 EPoX 8K5A2+'es were big drama's with later cards combined with older and later OS'es, however with the 8K3A+ simply the best EPoX board evermade in human history, that board was like a rock in every OS that ran on it untill 7 of it's Cappacitors started leaking :-X

for NT OS'es like Win2K pro & XP Pro I would advise using Omega 6.03 on R9700 to X850 series cards, since that these cards have the DX9.0b spec that driver is perfect for them.

for cards of the X1K series like X1800, X1900 and so on I'd say get Catalyst 6.12 or Omega Catalyst 7.01 based on Cat 7.1 and up :)

wrote on 31.01.07 at 13:08:24:

Hey Gary can you explain what problems you were seeing?

What part of "Blue Screen Of Death" is unclear????


Quote:

But yeah I know the problem too upgrade to another OS  heh back then I was like yeah right it's gonna cost me more cash if I would do that.

Cash has nothing to do with it- I have legacy applications that WILL NOT run under Win2k or XP.

I do use my computers for more than Internet or Gaming.


Quote:

but It could also be the motherboard you use?

Gigabyte with P4 Intel chipset, about as safe as you can get.

I doubt it as I already pointed out it works fine under Win2k or with win9x and a NV board.

You keep ignoring the fact I have no desire to tinker with third party drivers- I made my purchase based on advertised support for Win9x and ATI did not deliver.

I paid ATI for support and would expect an item I paid to work as advertised with a minimum of fuss with the provided drivers OR the revison downloaded from ATI.

This was not the case.

Um, I'm not going to get into the rest of this discussion but I have a 9600 Pro that would not work with a certain board no matter what OS. Ended up having to update the bios on it because there were known issues specifically with the 9600 series.

Just a suggestion.

wrote on 31.01.07 at 16:46:58:

Um, I'm not going to get into the rest of this discussion but I have a 9600 Pro that would not work with a certain board no matter what OS. Ended up having to update the bios on it because there were known issues specifically with the 9600 series.

The same MB & 9800 works under 2000/XP with no other changes.

From the sounds of it, you've got a nvidia card in the machine and it's working fine?


Just wondering, if that's the case I'll just let this thread die.  :P

1) ATI 9800 card and W98 = crash

2) ATI 9800 card and Win 2000 = no crash

3) NV card and W98 = no crash

4) NV card and Win 2000 = no crash

Cool, as long as it works. Thought you were still having problems to the point it wasn't working at all, that's all.

hmm 98SE isn't one of the best OSes out there, 2000 is far more reliable for most heavy load situations.

anyways a Gigabyte mobo with Intel chipset, uhm Intel I850? I865? I845P? there are so many of them.

an Intel chipset may be the issue since my AthlonXP with ASUS A7V333-R Rev 1.02 + Beta Bios 1017 VIA Apollo KT333 chipset and really it never failed under 98SE, 2KPro & XP Pro with a 9700 pro 9800Pro and X800XT PE AGP.

though Gigabyte like ASUS, ABiT and MSI are good brands overall.

So it might be a problem with your intel chipset and ATi card, which may sound silly and yeah it should work really.

uhm did you flash your mobo with a the latest bios that may help? you can also flash your ATi card with a newer bios that can fix things too ;)

It's so that support for 98SE has stopped for quite some time, so support for that OS isn't important  which also maybe the reason why ATi advises a later OS.

since it functions perfectly under 2K pro  :) really XP pro has great advantages , you can run 98SE games as programes unsder 98SE compabillity mode, and if that don't cope there is always DosBox :)

but yeah 98SE can run stable when you install it on a stable system, my ASUS A7V333-R ran 98SE with the 9700 Pro and 5500 PCI for 2 years without lockups.

I personally think it's the intel chipset problem with the ATi card under 98SE, just a bad support, could also give gigabyte the blame for bad support under 98SE with ATi cards ;) maybe a newer chipset driver might help, look elsewhere ;)

wrote on 31.01.07 at 22:19:40:

hmm 98SE isn't one of the best OSes out there, 2000 is far more reliable for most heavy load situations.

/gdonovan drums fingers on desk...

I have applications *THAT REQUIRE* Win98.

Not 2000 or XP, just Win98.

Opening a control panel is hardly heavy work.


Quote:

So it might be a problem with your intel chipset and ATi card, which may sound silly and yeah it should work really.

Obi do you even bother to read my posts?

yes I do bother to read them , why do you think I am posting? for the fun? heh, hope you read mine sometimes, sometimes I get that same idea too ya know, no need to get agro so soon :-/ Just help'n out here and figur'n out for another sollution, we Jedi don't give up that fast, we just find another way.

But then again back to the nastyness of your problems :)

1. Are there no newer and better applications that could replace the ones you are using, so you could make usage of 2KPro or XP Pro instead?

2. If not then I would say keep the ATi rig for NT based OS'es like 2K Pro and use the NV rig for older OSes if that runs better why not, still strange that your system has symptoms and the systems from FalconFly do not, I think it's the intelchipset which is causing the problem otherwise FalconFly as I should of gotten the same problems ;)

3. What you could do is test the ATi card in one of your KT333 rigs and see what happens there :)

wrote on 01.02.07 at 00:36:43:

1. Are there no newer and better applications that could replace the ones you are using, so you could make usage of 2KPro or XP Pro instead?

No.

hmm have you tested the X850 pro as 9800 Pro in an VIA KT333 based mobo as well under 98SE, because that seems to run perfect here as 2KPro as XP Pro as 98SE.

might be a chipset problem, unless a bios update might fix it , not sure bout that it's worth giving a go, unless you allready gave hat a shot heh :)

otherwise use the 6600GT card in the 98SE system and the ATi cards in the NT based rigs, and yes it's strange that the ATi's don't opperate under 98SE on an intel chipset in your situation.

And if you have tested it in the KT333 rigs like I asked before and even that didn't help then I have no idea Gary  :-/

Anyways for 98SE wouldn't it be wiser to make use of one of your many 3dfx cards since it remains the best OS for 3dfx cards and their image quallity rocks, as for the later model cards, they work faster under 2K and XP since they are mainly optimised for those OS'es.

I just hope you find a way Gary.

wrote on 01.02.07 at 01:02:33:

hmm have you tested the X850 pro as 9800 Pro in an VIA KT333 based mobo as well under 98SE, because that seems to run perfect here as 2KPro as XP Pro as 98SE.

The ATI board(s) are now regulated to my "gaming box" which runs Win2000pro.

No I have not tested the ATI boards on a KT-333 platform since they were not purchased for use on that platform.

An intel 848 chipset motherboard is as "gold standard" as you can get as far as a stable platform.


Quote:

might be a chipset problem, unless a bios update might fix it , not sure bout that it's worth giving a go, unless you allready gave hat a shot heh :)

Obi- It's a driver problem, the combo works fine under Win2k and also works fine under Win9x with a Nv board.

hmm oke well the VIA Apollo KT333 has the same Gold standard award for AMD Duron/Athlon/Athlon4/AthlonXP setups, built many of these setups while I still had a Job in the computer store: SilverStar Computer Service which I worked in for about 2 years, before that 9 years @ JOOS' Computers & Componenten ;)

the ASUS A7V333-R and EPoX EP-8K3A+ were the best and most reliable KT333 boards on the planet and also the most advised ones, When I was @ Silverstar we sold like 200 PC's with either one of those mobos with AMD Duron to AthlonXP setups in like 4 mounths it was a record for a small PC store in a village of about 4800 inhabbitants.

anyaways sorry for the offtopic babble there heh

well I'd say use the NV board in that config if that works why not, only if you would like the same performace of the X850 Pro I'd say get a nice 6800GT AGP 256MB.

if your intel chipset is so reliable, why doesn't it work with ATi cards like the VIA KT333 chipset I have for AMD CPU's do ?

An ATi card can't be compared with a GeForce, they totally two different designs.

I used to have this one from XFX :P
http://www.epicycle.org.uk/images/6800gt-1.jpg

Ok, sorry for being so blunt here, I'm home from work and i've had a couple but at this point, with Gary's machine working just with an nvidia card in it at this point, WHO CARES? Gary's got an experience that maybe can't be explained but in the end who cares, the machine works for what he wants it to do and his other machines are working fine so.....  Besides this as kind of gone on more then it needs to. Go play some quake you two and settle it that way.  :P  

On a side note, I've downloaded the demo so I'll be next time it's on a weekend. You guys tend to play when I'm at work.

@ Jandarsun8

Yeah you are right, sorry for getting so deep into the converstation :-X

@ gdonovan

Yeaps I can be a PITA sometimes true blue there mate haha, well you kicked my glory hole big time in Q3A ;D

Might as well settle this chit chat, be good friends and move on, Jandarsun8 has got point there.

well VR-Zone may have a real photo of the OEM R600 board afterall!, only it is kinda blury heh:
http://resources.vr-zone.com/newspics/Jan07/31/R600.jpg

these OEM cards are mostly found in Medion, Dell , HP systejms and so on, they have the longer 12" boards, for the retail market the XTX board will only be 9" long, heh what a breather!

It might be a Photoshop of an ATi X1950 XTX heh ;D
heh let's hope that our Voodoo 5 6000's shall still be king in size for gaming cards 8)

I hope that X2600 XT is a lot smaller than that.(and less power eating)
It's crucial to my case's airflow to have somethin big as that  :-/

wrote on 01.02.07 at 20:00:55:

I hope that X2600 XT is a lot smaller than that.(and less power eating) It's crucial to my case's airflow to have somethin big as that  :-/

well liek I mentioned that is the OEM version the retail version will be alot smaller :)

remember that the OEM version of the X800 and X800 XL were larger than the retail ones ;) It's just a cheaper way for production.

Hm, if that image was for real, they wouldn't have had any reason to blur the entire image (which ends up to be utterly useless, this could be a Vesa Local Bus 2MB Card for all I can tell ;) )

Usually it's a good sign for a maintained fake story to gather Hits on a Website, but we'll see soon enough.

wrote on 02.02.07 at 18:31:39:

Hm, if that image was for real, they wouldn't have had any reason to blur the entire image (which ends up to be utterly useless, this could be a Vesa Local Bus 2MB Card for all I can tell ;) ) Usually it's a good sign for a maintained fake story to gather Hits on a Website, but we'll see soon enough.

VLB looks different. VLB looks like PCI and 8 bits ISA together (both on one board). Not like a PCI-E 16x slot ;)

well I got the info from the Dutch ATi Topic, there are some users in that forum which have very possitive insider info about this card.

that blury picture as they claim is meant to be the OEM version of the R600. probably the X2800 XL, which will be found in OEM suystems like that from Medion, HP, Dell and so on.

Remember that sketch? here a pic of the comparrison of that blury photo and that sketch:
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m179/passiewassie/r600.jpg

look carefully, it pretty much does look alike it, well not saying it is that real, but may be it is sonce bluring tools could of been added toblur up the photo :)

It looks clearly like a PCI-E x16 connector no way a Legacy PCI 32Bit connector.

Anywyas When I get better photo's of the real card I will post it here asap ofcourse :)

Well, my statement was rather Symbolic.

Technically, it looks like the CAD Wireframe/Garaud rendered image was just fully polygon rendered and then blurred to hide that.

It's just nothing a Website would or should put up as 'proof' for a Story. There are better means of yielding good images while still protecting Sources that supply NDA equipment or footage.

Heck, I could photograph a guy out on the street, 25x blur the image and sell it as a spotted Alien doing shopping downtown ;)

hahah yeah you got a good point there, heh that card may be made of clay heh who knows, but yeah, it isn't good enough to state the real evidence ;)

Well something nice comming soon here in The Netherlands :)
ATi.AMD R600 was in Amsterdam in March
http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=37407

Heh Amsterdam is just a 180KM drive down the road from where I live, heh just out of town if I have to think in Australian distances ;D
hah! good news here as well :)
http://www.jonpeddie.com/about/press/2007/FirstLook_Q406.shtml

NVIDIA loses 0.3% marketshare, ATI gains 2.1% :P

Quote:

NVIDIA loses 0.3% marketshare, ATI gains 2.1%

So...the nVidia boss checks his email today... ::)

"Message to nVidia - you got PWNED!" 8)

ROFL! ;D

wrote on 06.02.07 at 00:08:47:

"Message to nVidia - you got PWNED!" 8)

If anyone had taken the time to read the page Obi linked to, Intel beats both ATI and Nv in graphics shippments.

Not much to brag about here.

True but that article is about who made the largest market gains from Q3 2K6 to Q42K6 and ATi made the largest gain of 2.1% as intel did not they only made a tiny gain of 0.3 %, while nVidia made a loss of a mere 0.3% that is what the article is about :)

IMHO it will be impossible to break intel's lead in integrated GPU (Chipset) anytime soon...

Considering they have nothing for gaming yet, not of much concern though
(they recently relaunched their GFX department to start stand-alone Video Cards again, however, for the first time since the i740 cards... Looks like they take AMD's competition very seriously)

yeaps, it kinda shocked them a little on that case, but it would take them years to make exellent cards like the X1K class or GF 8.xxx series class cards, ATi as Nvidia have much more experience by making such powerfull Graphics accelerators.
But if they start aiming for the low end segment they might have a nice start, it owuld be cool to see another good GFX brand out there, @ least Intel knows how to make CPU's why not VGA's instead :)

wrote on 06.02.07 at 18:08:38:

True but that article is about who made the largest market gains from Q3 2K6 to Q42K6 and ATi made the largest gain of 2.1% as intel did not they only made a tiny gain of 0.3 %, while nVidia made a loss of a mere 0.3% that is what the article is about :)

If you keep reading Intel and Nv both have a market share larger then ATI in the overall market.

wrote on 06.02.07 at 19:06:20:

ATi as Nvidia have much more experience by making such powerfull Graphics accelerators.

Your point of view baffles me- It was a 3dfx & Nv party for years with ATI being the weak sister of the bunch.

How do you justify your statment? For years ATI sold cheap graphics chips and which was their bread and butter till the 8000 series was released.

Don't underestimate the enemy, 3dfx did and look what it got them.

Intel tried entering the "stand alone" graphics market, i740 ring any bells? It's more profitable to sell low end vga solutions, as ATI did.

heh I read the dutch news today and it stated this:
http://tweakers.net/nieuws/46211/Videokaarten:-ATi-groeit-ten-koste-van-VIA.html

Volgens het marktonderzoek van Jon Peddie heeft ATi in het vierde kwartaal 2,1% aandeel gewonnen op het gebied van videochips. Aartsrivaal nVidia verloor ondertussen 0,3% en Intel won 0,3%, waardoor de grootste slag gewonnen lijkt te zijn tegenover VIA, dat 2% verloor.

ATi had the largest increase that was the headlines of that news and also the main thing about that news what lies around that is not of intrest! ;)

ATi made the lagest gain qua procentage, it's not about who has the most territor, it was about who made the biggest gain comapred to quarter 3 and quarter 4 2K6, and that was ATi, all the info is there :)
http://tweakers.net/nieuws/46211/Videokaarten:-ATi-groeit-ten-koste-van-VIA.html

Tweakers.net is one of the most reliable sources for Digitial and computer news on the web in the BeneLux system, just wanted you to know, they got the source from X-Bit labs, it should read in english there.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20070205075010.html

By looking at this result's graph:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/news/2007-02/graphics_mkt_jpr_q4_2006.jpg

AMD/ATi made the largest gain of all groups aka +2,1%, it isn't about who's on top, it's mainly about who made the largest positive leap forward ;)
and as the title of the X-Bit article reads :

Shipments of Graphics Adapters Flat – Jon Peddie Research.
AMD Begins to Fight Back Desktop Discrete Graphics Market ;D

therefore no need to baffle Gary, just relax :P

wrote on 06.02.07 at 21:03:24:

ATi had the largest increase that was the headlines of that news and also the main thing about that news what lies around that is not of intrest! ;)

Then you are a blind fool-

Kia of america increased it sales of cars a whopping ***40%*** for the month of November while Chrysler only increased it's sales 2%.

Buy Kia stock right? Till you look at the SALES NUMBERS and see that Kia sold 10,000 cars and Chrysler over 150,000.


Quote:

AMD/ATi made the largest gain of all groups aka +2,1%, it isn't about who's on top, it's mainly about who made the largest positive leap forward ;)

Hate to break it to you- As someone who is in business it's very much about who is on top. Volume sales is where the money is.

Heh, sorry guys - I just took the context from the forum posts rather than reading the article @Obi linked to... ::)

...just been to d@mn busy lately! :P

wrote on 06.02.07 at 21:43:14:

Then you are a blind fool- Kia of america increased it sales of cars a whopping ***40%*** for the month of November while Chrysler only increased it's sales 2%. Buy Kia stock right? Till you look at the SALES NUMBERS and see that Kia sold 10,000 cars and Chrysler over 150,000. Hate to break it to you- As someone who is in business it's very much about who is on top. Volume sales is where the money is.

Come back to your senses! :o what you are aiming at isn't what I posted. :o

it was this that I posted and nothing more:


wrote on 05.02.07 at 18:14:44:

hahah yeah you got a good point there, heh that card may be made of clay heh who knows, but yeah, it isn't good enough to state the real evidence ;) Well something nice comming soon here in The Netherlands :) ATi.AMD R600 was in Amsterdam in March http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=37407 Heh Amsterdam is just a 180KM drive down the road from where I live, heh just out of town if I have to think in Australian distances ;D hah! good news here as well :) http://www.jonpeddie.com/about/press/2007/FirstLook_Q406.shtml NVIDIA loses 0.3% marketshare, ATI gains 2.1% :P

So will you stop threating me please :-/ , because all I posted was that positive thing about AMD\ATi's 2.1% gain.

And another thing:

wrote on 06.02.07 at 21:43:14:

Then you are a blind fool-

Please do mind I am very disletic... it's not very kind to spot about that and no I am not blind, been going to the hospital for my eyes for 3 years and blindness was major threat back then, the infection I have is still unknown, so please be carefull what you say next time.

The term "blind fool" refers to someone who will not see facts, it has nothing to do with your actual vison.

Perhaps the ATI fanboy love is best left to an ATI forum eh?

Okay okay we know now that you are not fond of ATi cards, then I'm thinking why post here if ATi isn't your kind of thing?

And btw this topic has been made for the ATi users and to discuss about new ATi cards and also made for troubleshooting with ATi cards, not to start a flame war, in which your case would be leading...

wrote on 07.02.07 at 13:14:37:

Okay okay we know now that you are not fond of ATi cards, then I'm thinking why post here if ATi isn't your kind of thing?

As I pointed out before your argument lacks logic- I own both an 9800pro and a X850.

If I dislike ATI so much then why did I just purchase an X850 a few months ago? Your argument falls on it's face.

What I object to is your ATI fanboy attitude while proclaiming your not an ATI fanboy and then stating everyone else who points it out as being either anti-ATI or pro Nvidia.

The facts are what the facts are.


Quote:

btw this topic has been made for the ATi users and to discuss about new ATi cards and also made for troubleshooting with ATi cards

If that is the case, why are you posting information regarding market share? It has nothing directly to do with troubleshooting or new hardware.

I suggest taking this attitude to an ATI forum, it isn't welcome here.

well if ATi is welcome only not for your part, why are there so many ATi users in the first place ;)

But since you don't like this subject you may have it your way .

To make an end to this charade, just close this topic mate, really it is all up to you for that part, not me, I'm no admin Gary.

Jij je zin toch?

Vielen glück mit deine betragen :)

wrote on 07.02.07 at 18:30:16:

well if ATi is welcome only not for your part, why are there so many ATi users in the first place ;) But since you don't like this subject you may have it your way . To make an end to this charade, just close this topic mate, really it is all up to you for that part, not me, I'm no admin Gary. Jij je zin toch? Vielen glück mit deine betragen :)

Why are you saying that the topic should be closed? That useless and dumb. If it's up to me the topic can stay open and people can discuss about ATi as long as the useless fanboy stuff is stopped. After all I'm (and probably lot's of other people too) not interested in 'how great ATi is and that nVidia, VIA, SiS and Intel sucks all day'. I just want information about the latest ATi chips. Real numbers, real stories and no useless fanboy stuff.

Is it that hard to talk about brands in an objective way?

heh I don't have a problem with that, I open this topic first to discuss about new ATi cards also featuring the R600 :)

Though it was a good idea, then there were people that had some troubles with their cards so also the reason I changed the topic title :)

But since there were a few that had a problem with this type of topic, if you read the other posts, that made me think, let it be so.

I am very simple with that type of decissions.

It's not my will to close this topic, but if there are some that can't stand these topics, then it might be best to close them, it would only lead to confusion, hatred and pointless continuous discussions, which is in my point of view a waist of energy and time, got more important things on my mind.

It's not my intention to make people feel dispressed or so on, it's just what happened on the last few pages, made me agree to that idea.

I use Ati cards because of the oerall better experience I had with them than cards from nVidia, really I have backhand cards like nVidia's award winning Leadtek GeForce4 Ti4600, great card nothing wrong with it at all, it's that the drivers lack the great layout and extra possibillities like Theater mode and so on, the image quallity on ATi cards is also over much clearer in my opinion than that of others, others may see that differently, no probs with that, it's that being shouted out by users as an ATi FanBoy, sorry that's not true, they are mostly FanBoy's themselves, they are actually too chicken to relise that themselves, they are the types that should be ignored and left out.

And hey it's good t have a difference of GFX taste out there righty! ;D  

wrote on 07.02.07 at 18:30:16:

But since you don't like this subject you may have it your way .

*You* are the one defining the topic, not I.

You just stated a few posts ago that the topic was for hardware troubleshooting and discusion of new hardware and now it isn't?

Please explain?

"Winning an argument on the Internet is like running the Special Olympics - even if you win you're still a retard"

Very harsh and sarcastic, but there's alot of truth to it.

Sorry but topics like this should be closed and not argued about, we are two good friends and places like this can only make us think of bad things.

Obi it's not about "winning or losing" it's about having a rational discussion, further insults to people will get you nowhere on this board.

This little brush up came about when you insisted I was pro-Nvidia and ATI should not be held accountable for the problems encountered running thier hardware.

If I would insult people I would rather let myself get banned or remove myself.

Being a danger for otherusers isn't my intention, and really I haven't threatend someone yet heh.

FlaconFly would of taken note there, I think we just don't mix, we both have our own ways of thinking, reading and yes posting and that collides from time to time, which is a shame really, I have indeedly posted somethings that's weren't that well done so did you, we both have our problems.
It's that I don't want to loose good friend liek this, it would be the most rediculous way ever.


So here by my last post.

My appologies on what has happened here, if you would like to talk about it feel free to continue online.

I contacted FF this morning requesting his input and await his answer as anything I might do might be construed as a conflict of interest.

You can post or not as you see fit, all the board requests is to be reasonable.

You must do what you feel is right of course :) as for my side the same.

Someone close the godd@mn thread! :-X

It's just become one LONG messy big mess of mess... :P

Yes, it has gotten off topic. ::)

Yes, we do like ATI. ::) [but no fanboi cr@p]

...and this is in "This & That" which - correct me if I'm wrong - is a forum area for 'miscellaneous'. ::)

Which means anything fits in here. :P

But this thread is still a mess...close it! :(

-END OF LINE- :-X

Agreed about the mess, but no reason to close it.

I'd rather see both sides cool of and relax (too much time at hand guys ? ).

Essence of the Thread :
Some like ATI more than others, some don't.
(now that's a 150:1 information compression ratio, impressive uh ? ;D )

Otherwise, we'd have to open a new subsection of the Forum called "Fightclub".

Yes I agree Falconfly
For now back ontopic, no more fights shall happen here,as they don't belong in this thread.
So let's keep it ATi based!

So here is my ATi collection, it's something I do besides collecting 3dfx cards :)

ATi Rage Pro Turbo AGP 8MB Rev.A 9839 based on R3D
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/17973-2/ATi+Rage+ProTurbo+AGP+8MB+Rev_A+9839+Top.JPG http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/17977-2/ATi+Rage+ProTurbo+AGP+8MB+Rev_A+9839+Bottom.JPG http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/17980-2/ATi+Rage+ProTurbo+AGP+8MB+Rev_A+9839+Headshot.JPG

Gateway System ATi Rage 128 LX AGP 8MB Rev.A 9938 R128 LX based on R128 LX
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/17990-2/Gateway+Systems+ATi+Rage+128++LX+AGP+8MB+Rev_A+9938+Top.JPG http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/17987-2/Gateway+Systems+ATi+Rage+128++LX+AGP+8MB+Rev_A+9938+Bottom.JPG http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/17983-2/Gateway+Systems+ATi+Rage+128++LX+AGP+8MB+Rev_A+9938+Headshot.JPG

ATi Rage Fury MAXX AGP 64MB Rev.A 9952 based on R128 Pro
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/17993-2/ATi+Rage+Fury+MAXX+AGP+64MB+Rev_A+9952+Top.JPG http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/17997-2/ATi+Rage+Fury+MAXX+AGP+64MB+Rev_A+9952+Bottom.JPG http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/18000-2/ATi+Rage+Fury+MAXX+AGP+64MB+Rev_A+9952+Headshot.JPG

ATi Radeon 256 AGP 64MB DDR Rev.A 0114 based on R100
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/18003-2/ATi+Radeon+256+AGP+64MB+DDR+ViVo+Rev_A+0114+Top.JPG http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/18007-2/ATi+Radeon+256+AGP+64MB+DDR+ViVo+Rev_A+0114+Bottom.JPG http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/18010-2/ATi+Radeon+256+AGP+64MB+DDR+ViVo+Rev_A+0114+Headshot.JPG

ASUS ATi Radeon X800 XT Platinum Edition AGP 256MB GDDR3 Rev.A 0441 based on R420
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/17699-2/ASUS+ATi+Radeon+X800XT+Platinum+Edition+AGP+256MB+Rev_A+0441+Top.JPG http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/17692-2/ASUS+ATi+Radeon+X800XT+Platinum+Edition+AGP+256MB+Rev_A+0441+Back.JPG http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/17696-2/ASUS+ATi+Radeon+X800XT+Platinum+Edition+AGP+256MB+Rev_A+0441+Head+Shot.JPG

Dell ATi M18 Mobillity Radeon 9800 AGP 256MB GDDR2 Rev.B 0510 based on R420M
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/7635-2/DSC00530.jpg

Sapphire ATi Radeon X1900 XTX PCI-E 512MB GDDR3 Rev.B 0552 based on R580
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/12711-2/Sapphire+Ati+Radeon+X1900+XTX+PCI-E+512MB++Rev_A+0552.JPG http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/14709-2/X1900+XTX+back.JPG http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/12723-2/V6K+R580XTX+headshot+zoomed.JPG

Sapphire ATi Radeon X1950 XTX CrossFire Edition PCI-E 512MB GDDR4 Rev.B 0629 based on R580+
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/16824-2/DSC01813.JPG http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/16836-2/DSC01817.JPG http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/16827-2/DSC01814.JPG

the difference of the X1900 XTX & X1950 XTX CFE:
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/16845-2/DSC01820.JPG http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/16851-2/DSC01822.JPG http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/16854-2/DSC01823.JPG

The LX card sure is weird! ::)

Looks like someone took a bite out of it...LOL! :D

yeah it sure looks funny, I recieved those 8MB cards froma  collegue as a gift and the Radeon 256 DDR from my neighbour man :)

What was the code name of the Rage 128 and Rage 3D actually? from Radeon 256 it is R100.

well everyone here's a photo of the R600 XTX OEM [X2800 XTX OEM] model:
http://resources.vr-zone.com//newspics/Feb07/09/R600XTX.jpg

This OEM model is 12.5 inches in length and houses 1GB of 512Bit GDDR4 same amount goes for the much shorter Retail model, it's the one that will be found in OEM PC's like that from Medion, Dell, HP Packard Bell and so on, the Retail one aka the boxed one you buy loose in the retailer computerstores will be alot shorter :, about 9.5 inches in length! that's better news for us users, that the OEM is so much longer was to reduce the costs and put a cheaper cooler design on it.

got it from here:
http://vr-zone.com/?i=4622

"Both feature 1GB DDR4 memories on board but the OEM version is 12.4" long to be exact and the retail is 9.5" long. The above picture shows a 12.4" OEM version. The power consumption of the card is huge at 270W for 12""

I'll DEFINITELY buy this Beast as soon as it'll be realeased - this looks so amazing! :o :o :D
pure raw power ;D

Whoooo Hoooo here it is the official photo's of the OEM Prototype of the X2800 XTX , keep in mind the Retail card is much smaller ;)

http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/t199522_X2800XTXOEMb.jpg http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/t199511_X2800XTXOEMa.jpg http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/t199537_X2800XTXOEMf.jpg
http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/t199526_X2800XTXOEMc.jpg http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/t199528_X2800XTXOEMd.jpg http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/t199530_X2800XTXOEMe.jpg

Here the site who hosted Pics of this beast!
http://www.overclockers.com/articles1411/

However the previewer of that artcle doesn't know if this is the official OEM DX10 card from ATi, but if you look carefully it's the first Enthousiast ATi card with the Internal CrossFire setup connectors and as the dutch source described, this is the official X2800 XTX OEM model, since there are a few resourcefull ATi/AMD insiders in that dutch forum, as they have been to many ATi launches.

Well, that certainly is a heavy piece of equipment.

yeah sure is, but do relise that that is the OEM card, the retail one will have the same size as our R580's FalconFly aka 9.5 inches orsay 24cm :)

So @ least that's the upside for us custom PC builders.

I'd rather own the OEM model! ;D

I mean it's one of the ONLY GFX cards I've seen that uses MAINBOARD connectors for power!!! :o

HOLY GAWD! :o

well they are basically the same type of connectors on the X1800/1900/1950 cards, but then instead of 6pinned, the X2800 XTX OEM has 1x 8pinn and 1x 6pinned connectors :)

This pic shows the 6 pinned power connector on the X1900 XTX:
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/16854-2/DSC01823.JPG
The X1950 XTX CFE has the same type of power connector:

this pic shows how my X1900 XTX + X1950 XTX CFE CF set is powered up :
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/16880-2/DSC01831.JPG

Ah a nice update about the 8pinned and 6 pinned connectors on that OEM X2800 XTX and futre cards also:
http://www.enermax.com.tw/admin/pic/200711215391013542.jpg

heh that explains it ;D
so it could be seen in four ways:

Way One:
Use both 6 pin as 8Pin connectors while using the card in a PCI-Express 1.0 slot [aka PCI-E x16]

Way Two:
Use only the 6 pinned power connector for PCI-Express 1.0

Way Three:
Use only the 8 pinned connector for PCI-E 2.0.

Way Four:
well same as Way One but then for PCI-E 2.0 ;)

well got some more R600 info also info of the other names of the midrage as low end cards :)

http://www.ocworkbench.com/2007/newsphotos/feb/R600%20info.jpg

I hope somebosy from Chine might be able to translate that graph.

What also is interesting is the X2800XTX2 it has 2 VPU's each baring 512MB 256Bit GDDR4 which is quite a nice idea, looks alot like the 7900GX2 and 7950GX2 idea's from nvidia but then based on the R600 instead, very L33T idea.

heh Quad Cross will have it's place oneday, and it's gonna rock!

Also came across this Mockup of the X2800 XTX Retail card:
http://www.ezyphotoshare.com/image/164.jpeg

heh those PCB flaps remind me of the 3dfx Voodoo5 6000 AGP 128MB Rev.A1 1500 & Rev.A3 3400 cards :):
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/15236-2/Rev_A1+1500_001.JPG
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/16274-1/SiRtA_s+3dfx+Voodoo+5+6000+AGP+128+Rev_A3+3400.jpg

Okay, so first nVidia 'borrows' 3Dfx tech... :P
(translation - 'steals') ::)

Then ATI 'copies' 3Dfx design... :P

...methinks I see a pattern in the industry! ::)

In short - we all knew that 3Dfx designs were YEARS ahead of their time! ;D

History repeats itself - and it still looks L33T! 8)

Hm, I read today that the high-end models will use upto 270W peak power, and the midrange (scaled down) still use 240W peak power.

I seriously hope that's either not true or is a theoretical value which is never achieved in real-world. Otherwise that would be quite too much for my taste.

@Paul
Did you ever notice that you put a different Smiley behind every one of your sentences? (Smile-a-holic ;D)

well from what I have read from my dutch source is that the retail model shall use 240 watts and the OEM model the big 32CM card that one will use 270 watts, that's under full load.

but hay do remmeber that a single R600 has about double the memory bandwidth of a single 8800GTX so its' no wonder that such a powerfull card may need so much power, doesn't a single 8800GTX use something like 212 watts?
an 8800GTX does 87,6 GB per sec max RAM bandwidth a X2800 XTX does 153,4GB per sec max bandwidth heh see there is a large difference, personally I think that the X2800 XTX will even crush a SLI setup of 2 8800 GTX cards in DX10 mode with all eye candy enabled, since it's ram bandwidth is allmost the same, where as ATi cards allways triumphed with max eye candy settings :)

Anyways all waht we can do is wait and see.

So for ATi's sake with a card that allmost doubs the NV card qua max memory bandwith I find it quite neat that it only needs 240 watts for the retail board, don't understand why the OEM card uses more though, I will ask my resources that.

But still 240 watts is rather wacko, I just hope it will be something like 170 watts, Since our R580 use something like 140 to 160 watts?

Dunno what my R580+ uses, I think abit less than the R580, since it has a smaller die afaik.

Quote:

Smile-a-holic

I tend to use them like chocolate - LMAO! ;D

Besides, they are supposed to give your sentences a certain emotive quality - so I use them to give people an idea of what I'm thinking as I type. :)

Also something very interesting here some updates about the new Catalyst drivers for the R600 and other ATi cards before and after it :)

the article come from PC perspective:
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=367

"One thing that NVIDIA had to deal with in their driver development that ATI didn't have to publicly is support DX10. Because none of the currently available ATI hardware can run DX10, the Catalyst driver development is on-going at the company. Thanks to NDA's in place on the next generation R600 hardware that will undoubtedly support DX10 and Vista, ATI wasn't able to share a whole lot on the status of Catalyst software for DX10, but they were very up-beat about it.

The ATI Catalyst DX10 driver was developed by a separate, but parallel, team of software engineers that started work sometime after the DX9 Vista driver team began their work. ATI would like us to trust in their software development cycle by indicating their Vista driver was ready on time and that so will their DX10 Vista driver.

While I can't say much about the upcoming R600 hardware itself, there is little hiding that the products are coming soon and with a big trade event coming up in the March time frame, it might be a good time to release a new GPU. Maybe. But in any event, ATI's Makedon says that if any DX10 titles are available with the R600 launches that his team will be ready with a driver for the R600 for them. ATI even kind of gave NVIDIA the benefit of the doubt by saying that without DX10 titles for gamers, there really wasn't much point in harping on them about their lack of a DX10-ready driver. Man, how often do you see that??"

heh I like what AMD says about NV drivers, it is the truth imho.

"Catalyst 7.2 - February
Coming in the next week or so, this release will offer some significant OpenGL optimizations to help fix some performance issues that we saw in our initial performance article under Vista. We will also the addition of the new Catalyst software installer appliction to the XP release of Catalyst 7.2

Catalyst 7.3 - March
This release will bring CrossFire support back to OpenGL applications running under Vista as well as additional OpenGL performance optimizations. This release should also see the introduction of support for Blu-ray and HD-DVD playback under 64-bit versions of Windows Vista.

Catalyst 7.4 - April
The Linux Catalyst Control Center is set to be released in this update.

Catalyst 7.5 - May
The new MSAA adaptive anti-aliasing is scheduled to be put into the May Catalyst release. This feature will bring their AA options on-par or beyond what NVIDIA currently offers on the G80 graphics cards. This feature timeline is a target, and not yet a commitment from AMD at this time."

So here comes the interesting part, if you look @ Cat. 7.5 drivers they will support MSAA Adaptive FSAA hey!! that's nice it kinda remembers me that 3dfx used for their Rampage design , a good 6,5 years ago ;D check:
http://www.thedodgegarage.com/3dfx/rampage.htm

Rampage rasteriser:

· Rampage Texture computer with "loopback"
· 3dfx M-Buffer (Multi-Sample Buffer)
· 2x/4x RGMS Full Scene AntiAlising aka Rotated Grid Multi Sample Full Scene Anti-Aliasing
· Up to 128Tap anisotropic filtering
· 52bit Internal Color rendering precision / 0 - 16.0 Color luminosity range
· FXT1/DXT1 Texture compression · 3D textures support
· True PhotoShop filter effects in hardware
· Non-Photorealistic rendering
· Cube Environment Maps/EMBM/Dot3 BM
· YUV Texture formats
· 1/2/4 chip scalability
· Fully programmable DirectX8 1.1compiant Pixel Shaders with additional features (DX9)

ATi is kinda using old 3dfx tech for their newer drivers, damn I like that idea, since MSAA is the same idea as MSRG FSAA, comes to the same principles, the obly extra added to thattype of FSAA is the Adaptive part which we all know from the X1K series.

Personally I think that this new mic of 3dfx MSRG FSAA & ATi Adaptive AA is gonna make the FSAA idea even nicer, but how far can they really go at that part?
why no changes to the Anisotropic Filtering as well like AF x32 Hight Quallity? should be possible right?

Hm, I don't know if it would make sense going so far beyond what we already have...

I mean, 8x FSAA (with TAA and alike tricks) is already scratching 12x upto 16x FSAA quality.
Add 16x Aniso to that, I couldn't see any difference e.g. to 32x FSAA on my TFT Monitor anyway (1280x1024).

Might be of interest for extremely large Display Resolutions, but who can afford those Displays ;)

IMHO the race for FSAA/Aniso Records is over (enough is enough), I'd rather see them integrate more usable 3D or PPU features or reduce power consumption back to normal levels with efficiency.

hmm got some more info from VR-Zone :)
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4672

"[It's Official. R600 is Radeon X2900 Series]"

heh they are saying it's official, then I'm like how can they be sure it's so uhm official?

since VR-Zone is like The Inquierer, it's gossip site like many others, so imho that if a Gossip site says that the R600 series  carrie the X2900 nametag as it's official name, how real that it all sounds, we can't state that as true evidence of the card's real official name, since that there has been no name release from the host aka AMD.ATi themselves :)

So I still see it as gossip than true info.  

Well there is some fantastic news for the AGP people heeh like Jandarsun8 as myself too, I'd say click to enlarge ;)
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screenshots/medium/GeCube_1950XT_AGP.jpg

GeCube ATi Radeon X1950XT AGP Whoooooooooo hoooooooo!!! Crikey Isn't hShe Gorgeous!!!

Core/mem 575Mhz/1800Mhz DDR [900 Mhz Physical]
This is the best AGP card up to date my friends and yes it has the full 48 Pixelshader Processors and 8 vertex shader processors!

Same specs as the X1950XT PCI-E card, it also uses the Ralito PCI-E to AGP x8 convetor, the only thing I don't know if it will support AGP x4 also, that question remains to be answered.

WHOA - HEATSINKAGE! :o

You'd end up losing two PCI slots next to the thing!!! :P

Oh SWEET!! Very nice card! Us AGP users are still loved.  ;D  hehe Makes me think I should have waited on the 512 Meg Pro card I just got...... Nah couldn't afford the price tag on this beast.  :P   Nice card though  ;D

yeah this card is really gonna kick some NV arse, in most cases it's even faster than a 7900GTX ;D just amazing how fast AGP cards really are, to me the PCUI-E thing is morely done for the marketing part, since that in most cases AGP x8 cards of the same type beat their PCI-E x16 counterparts, so funny and stuff LoooL ;D

Well from what i understand, PCIe only really shines either under SLI (or Crossfire) mode or if what they were originally planning on having the video cards use more of... shared system memory. That's where the bandwidth issues are the most important. Because the video cards didn't go that way and have added more and more memory to the cards themselves, the memory bandwidth being used by the port is not much more, if any, then AGP.

And this could be that I'm talking out my a$$ on this too, but that from what I've understood, this is why they came out with the port in the first place. Like I said, could be very wrong on all this.  :P

hmm maybe dal AGP slot's was impossible for the SLI as CrossFire setups just qua instabillity factors and speed performance wise?

Just a deep thought there :)

Well my ATi Fans & Friends :)

Here some new info, that chart I posted earlier has false info, the name X2800 has been dropped.

The new name and form of the die of the card has changed quite a bit.

Remember that the R600 had 721 mil transistors?

This new model has only 700 Mil transistors, ATi has managed to have made it alot smaller so thereby it will also use alot less power, ATi is planning to use the refreshchip of the R600, with the A15 silicon.

The new name of the chip based card will be called ATi Radeon X2900 XTX and it will be launched and showcased on March 15-21 2007 in Amsterdam The Retail model will be 9.5" Long aka 24CM long, shorter than a 5500 PCI, the OEM model will be12 " long aka 32CM long about the size of a Voodoo 5 6000 Rev.A 3700 :)

The OEM card chall have a double slot cooler which will be very silent and the Retail model will have a Vapor chamber cooler like the X1950 XTX cards also double slot indeed.

So here some info from the source aka Daily Tech:

"Six weeks from now, the world will get the first retail Radeon X2900 XTX"

"AMD's guidance claims R600 will feature 700 million transistors.  By comparison, the Radeon X1900 series R580 GPU incorporated 384 million transistors into its design; the half-generation before that, R520, only featured 320 million."  

"On March 30, 2007, AMD will initially debut the R600 as the ATI Radeon X2900 XTX in two separate configurations: one for OEMs and another for retail.  The OEM version is the full length 12" card that will appear in high-end systems."

"1GB of GDDR4 memory is the reference configuration for Radeon X2900 XTX.  Memory on the reference X2900 XTX cards was supplied by Samsung."

"Approximately one month later, the company will launch the GDDR3 version of the card.  This card, dubbed the Radeon X2900 XT, features 512MB of GDDR3 and lower clock frequencies than the X2900 XTX."

"AMD anticipates the target driver for X2900 XT to be Catalyst 8.36.  WHQL release of the X2900 XTX drive will appear around the Ides of March."

the XTX model will work with Catalyst 7.3, I got this from the dutch ATi Topic, also from one of our AMD.ATi insiders ;)

"One 6-pin and one 8-pin (2x4) VGA power connectors are featured on Radeon X2900, but both connectors are also backwards compatible with 6-pin power supply cables."

here the source:
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6138

wrote on 16.02.07 at 15:41:03:

Oh SWEET!! Very nice card! Us AGP users are still loved.  ;D  hehe Makes me think I should have waited on the 512 Meg Pro card I just got...... Nah couldn't afford the price tag on this beast.  :P   Nice card though  ;D

If you decide you have to have the XT I would be interested in your old Pro 8)

well here it is my friends :)
http://www.gecube.com/products-detail.php?prod_cat_pid=9&prod_cat_id=166&prod_id=65116

the X1950 XT has the same core as the X1950 XTX an ATi R580+ running at 650 Mhz [648Mhz to be exact] and it's 256Bit GDDR3 runs @ 1800Mhz DDR [ 900Mhz Physical]

Thereby is this the most powerfull AGP card on the face of the Earth.

Product Features in short:

* Powered by ATI RADEON® RV580+ (90nm) GPU
* A 90-nanometer process GPU, the debut of the unique processing architecture
* 256MB of 256-bit (512-bit Internal Ring Bus) GDDR3 memory
* 48 parallel pixel pipelines
* Dual DVI (Double Dual Link) + HDTV + HDCP + D-sub support.
* Satisfied thermal control device : 1950XTX level in core clock (648MHz X1950XTX original core clock) at only about 70°C or more while operating 3D in room temperature environment for reliability.
* Shader Model 3.0 features new High Dynamic Range visual effects, and enhances realism with adaptive anti-aliasing and lightening fast performance.
* With X-Turbo fan cooler: Easily to have 648MHz default core clock for 1950XT AGP board and Overdrive to 675MHz ASIC core maximum overclock margin.

http://www.gecube.com/cms_file.php?id=2484

Gamma, I'll definately let you know if I decide to get that. Gotta watch Newegg for it for a while. It took the X1950 Pro almost two months to get listed on there after initially seeing it on sites over seas. So thinking that maybe by the time may or june hits it'll be posted and depending on prices I might upgrade, not sure yet.

hmm,I wonder if its going to run on the via kt333 chipset..

heh yeah I have been questioning myself that too, the X800 Xt Platinum Edition I use now does AGP x8 as AGP x4 with no problems it also has no Ralito chip, it does it by nature.

So maybe that Ralito chip might create problems to let the card opperate in AGP x4 mode, since I had the same problem with a XFX GeForce 7600 GT 580M 256MB GDDR3 AGP x8, it didn't work in the AGP x4 boards I have here ASUS A7V333-R Rev 1.02 & ASUS P4T S423, the card just refused to opperate, only bootscreen worked and the bios, but windwos refused to boot properly.

after testing it in my Dad's Semp64 2800+ it functioned perfectly, his chipset is the nForce3 250 with a true AGP x8 slot, it is AGP x4/x2 revers compatible but even there the 7600GT didn't accept AGP x4 mode.

So might this be because of the Ralito chip or could it be the G73 that doesn't accept AGP x4?

I wonder if a X1950 Pro AGP would have these problems as well, since it does have the similar parts like that Ralitio chip to convert PCI-E to AGP signals.

wrote on 18.02.07 at 21:46:37:

WOOHOO Six weeks until X2900 XTX! ;D 8) http://dailytech.com/AMD+Releases+Final+R600+Specs/article6138.htm ...well, at least maybe... ::)

Double post ;)
http://www.falconfly-central.de/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=offtopic;action=display;num=1164418789;start=135

wrote on 17.02.07 at 14:08:58:

.... So here some info from the source aka Daily Tech: "Six weeks from now, the world will get the first retail Radeon X2900 XTX" "AMD's guidance claims R600 will feature 700 million transistors.  By comparison, the Radeon X1900 series R580 GPU incorporated 384 million transistors into its design; the half-generation before that, R520, only featured 320 million."   "On March 30, 2007, AMD will initially debut the R600 as the ATI Radeon X2900 XTX in two separate configurations: one for OEMs and another for retail.  The OEM version is the full length 12" card that will appear in high-end systems." here the source: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6138

read on page 10, I posted that yesterday ;)

DOH, my bad...post removed! ::)

..a guy over here is running a x1950pro agp on a kt600 board,funny thing is that he can only run it in agp4x mode,because 8x causes instability.seems like the card has no problems with agp4x mode ;D

Well, haven't tried mine in 4x mode yet, but I'm running a VIA KT880 board in 8x mode and it's running smooth as silk. I gotta test this for Obi soon, just have been a little busy lately. I'll look into it soon though.

well the boards I use for testing have AGP x4 only slots, they are the following:

ASUS A7V333-R Rev.1.02 with Bios 1017 Final
VIA Apollo KT333 chipset for Socket 462
1x Universal AGP Pro 50 x4 Slot
5x PCI 32 Bit Slots

the test witha Ralito based XFX GeForce 7600 GT 580M AGP has failed in AGP x4 mode on this board, the idea was to see if the Ralito would accept the AGP x4 bus.

The other board I use for testing is based on a Legacy Pentium4 Intel chipset & Design.

ASUS P4T Rev.1.04 With Bios 1007
Intel i850 Chipset for Socket 423
1x True AGP Pro 50 x4 Slot
5x PCI 32 Bit Slots

this board gave the same Anomalies with the Ralito based AGP x8 card, so my conclusion that it's not a chipset realted subject.

So Jan it would be great if you have a system that makes use of the Intel i850 or VIA Apollo KT333 chipset, then we can find out if it will really work.

the ASUS ATi Radeon X800 XT Platinum Edition AGP x8 works perfectly the same goes for the HIS ATi Radeon 9550 AGP x8 256MB DDR, Hercules ATi Radeon 9700 Pro AGP x8 128MBDDR,  XFX NVIDIA GeForce 6800GT AGP x8 256MB GDDR3 as Leadtek NVIDIA GeForce 6800 AGP x8 128MB DDR and Gigabute NVIDIA GeForceFX 5700 AGP x8 128MB DDR.

All of those cards functioned without flaws in AGP x4 mode in both system setups.

So If a X1950 Pro AGP x8 works stable in AGP x4 in either setup which I have listed, then a X1950 XT should do the same, since they both have the same card design qua PCI-E to AGP layout.

My Thanks goes to all helping me study this nasty thing :)

yeah,KT333+x1950agp working/not working confirmation would be great ;)

I'm going to pick up a x1950pro agp (the one from MSI has caught my eye,nice and red,uses the pci-e power connector {the sapphire double molex solution looks just lame},and its way cheaper than those bloody boards from HIS,yeah they have that d@mn fine ICE-Q cooler and higher clocks,but that simply doesnt justify the horrid price) as soon as they are avilable over here,but I cant find an epox 8K5A board on ebay no matter what.if someone manages to catch one just gimme a whistle (must support paypal&ship to europe).

heh that MSI looks nice ps47, I liek th e red cooler too , heh Red All Over w00t ;D

good news , ATi has realeased a super driver upgrade for 2K/XP/XP64 as Vista, it seems to be 100% unified for use in all osses!


Quote:

New Features Catalyst™ 7.2 introduces a brand new version of the Catalyst™ Control Center for Windows XP. The new Catalyst™ Control Center delivers a number of significant enhancements: * Significant performance gains; Catalyst™ Control Center start-up time has been substantially reduced, and overall responsiveness has improved. * Reduced system resource usage * New 3D preview which significantly improves the ability for users to understand the benefits of enabling the many Catalyst™ features of their ATI Radeon™ graphics accelerator * Increased stability * Native 32 and 64-bit support Performance Improvements Open GL performance improves for all ATI Radeon™ X1000 series products. Gains of up to 25% in Doom 3, 48% in Quake 4 and 21% in Prey can be seen on a variety of ATI Radeon™ X1000 cards. These performance gains are noticed under the Windows Vista operating system.

And damn nice speed upgrades as well w00t ;D ;D ;D
http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/radeonx-xp.html

Users with ATi X1900 as X1950 series cards will notice the greatest speed bumps and yes that's including the X1900 GT, XL, XT, XTX as X1950 GT, Pro XT as XTX cards!

do nitice the speed gains will only be noticed under Vista OS, heh maybe there is a way to make XP Pro get those extra's as well, still strange on that one.

since it's hard to believe that a new MS OS is that much faster than XP pro as 2K Pro heh.
CrossFire setups will love it too, so I will be testing that out right on this week w00t!
heh can't wait when Omega will take on these ones since he always succeeds to get the best image quallity + best speed nicely combined :)

Me thinks that all currently existing Vista Drivers were quite far behind 2000/XP Drivers (5 upto 20% under DirectX).

Easy to imagine that the Situation in OpenGL was so catastrophic that very large speed gains are perfectly normal (and still remain at least a few % behind 2000/XP).

It will be months until Vista runs as fast as the estabilshed OS'es, maybe it'll never be as fast - after all it's the biggest Resource wasting OS ever designed in x86 history.

yeaps Windows ME had the same kind of effect qua instabillity problems :-X that was also one of the worst Operating Systems ever made, just the history of it, most people chose Windows 2000 Professional instead heh!


Companies where I have wroked still choose Winddows 2000 Professional + Rollup 1 for SP4 for thier systems, it's very bold and fast, in many cases faster than XP, because it's so lightly built.

So I ran a test on my AthlonXP 2700+ with the X800XT Platinum Edition AGP under Wn2K Pro + R1 for SP4 and under WinXP Pro + SP2

the difference in 3D mark 2001 SE was about 297 points in advantage of Win2K Pro! amazing 2K Pro is like 297 points faster than XP Pro amazing what an older OS can do heh, anyways I used on both tests the same drivers aka Omega Catalyst 6.03 just to find out you see :)

here my 2000 Pro score default speeds as settings :)
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=9138787

here my XP Pro score default speeds as settings :)
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=9135095

okay the differences are minor but the fact is that 2000 Pro is faster than XP Pro is true here, even with 512MB of ram in the 2K system the score was the same.

anyways the X1900 XTX standalone got 30K in normal default settings
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8962088

but with crossfire I onlgot about 2000 points more, I suppose that 3D mark 2001SE doesn't support CrossFire propperlly and that it only ran the test on the primary card aka the X1950 XTX CrossFire Edition instead heh.

here some new pic of the ATi Radeon X2900 XTX 1024MB OEM Prototype from the Amsterdam X2900 XTX pressentation :)

http://i.zdnet.com/gallery/57090.jpg
http://i.zdnet.com/gallery/57091-525-203.jpg
http://i.zdnet.com/gallery/57092.jpg
http://i.zdnet.com/gallery/57093.jpg
http://i.zdnet.com/gallery/57094.jpg

here's the source to it :)
http://content.zdnet.com/2346-10741_22-57089-1.html

heh it would be exellent to obtain this prototype w00t! just If I knew how heh ;D

here finally some pics of a CrossFire setup of 2 ATi X2900 XTX cards used as 2 Stream Processors! just look at the rendering power, higher than a single Terraflop!
http://hardocp.com/images/news/1172804747QRR8ewfqvI_1_2_l.jpg
http://hardocp.com/images/news/1172804747QRR8ewfqvI_1_1_l.jpg

These shots show how a crossfire setup can be used as a Dual Stream Processor setup, this setup enables the cards to work as CPU's for rendering heavy stuff, a single R600 has the same rendering power as up to 30 of the fsatest Workstation CPU, as where as a R580+ has only half of that rendering power, up to 15 times the render power of the fastest workstation CPU.

Combine that with 2 Opteron K8L Quad CPU's then you have a very powerfull rendering machine. 8)

"Also many have been worried about the size of the new R600 video cards. ATI is stating that 345mm / 13.6" will be the required space to fit the cards in a case. (Yes, the retail version will be somewhat shorter, or at least that is what is told to us even though we have yet to see one.) This figure is the card's 335mm physical length plus 10mm to properly install the card. A GeForce 8800 GTX is just under 11 inches longs while the 4 GPU 3dfx Voodoo 5 6000 comes in at 11.75 inches. Certainly if you have an R600, it looks like you will be able to claim having the longest in the room…."

heh well my Voodoo 5 6000 AGP 128MB Rev.A 3700 with bracket is 34.5CM long as well with the bracket, the PCB of that R600 is actually no longer than that of a Voodoo 5 5000 AGP or X1950 XTX.

I'd say this 1.018 Teraflops are entirely synthetic (Quick & Dirty estimate by the Brooktree Compiler)

If 10% of that is uable for general Purpose (realistic), that'd be still an okay number ;)

well there is also good news for us Mobile Gamers :)
http://www.techpowerup.com/?26673

with the ATi Lasso you can simply use the latest ATi GFX cards for your laptop by connecting them externally to the Laptop :)

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/07-03-04/lasso.jpg

The card featured in that photo is an Ati Radeon X850 XT class card, which is placed in a very early prototype of the ATi Lasso convertor card.

The idea is very well thought, this way a single as multi ATi VPU setup of say 2 X2900 XTX cards is possible!

The only thing is how would you use your default Laptop TFT panel on that external card?

[humour]

Take laptop... :)

Take hacksaw... ;)

Cut out screen... :D

Wire-up screen to external ATI card... ;D

...problem solved! 8)

[/humour]

ROFL! ;D ;D

Is it true that the latest delay was made because ati wanted to release X2900s' and x2600s' at the same time?

I hope so.. I can't wait get my hands on X2600 :P

wikipedia says:

Quote:

X2600 XT  RV630      65 nm      650/1600 128-bit      64 shaders 256 MB GDDR3 Priced at $199 X2600 PRO      RV630      65 nm      550/1400 128-bit      64 shaders 256 MB GDDR3 Priced at $149 :)

it seems to be that is best that I bough pro version and oc to xt  ;D

Well I have been testing the Command & Conquer3 demo on my X1900 XTX + X1950 XTX CrossFire Edition CrossFire setup at maxx details @ reso 1440x 900 x32 FSAA x14, AF x16HQ, Adaptive AA as HDR at max settings, so here the results:


http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/19288-2/C_amp_C3+a.jpg http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/19291-2/C_amp_C3+b.jpg http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/19294-2/C_amp_C3+c.jpg

I must say that Direcx9.0c still looks very demanding!:o Just look at all that Motion Blur! :o
Thanx to 3dfx we have that technology in our modern graphics accelerators of today. 8)

The Crossfire setup handles this game in these insane settings without a problem and quite fluid gameplay as well, not bad for 2 R580 based cards, since that the R580 was designed back in Q4 2005, my X1900 XTX is a Rev.B 0552, it's from week 52 year 2005 but it was released Q1 2006.

Okay I must admit that the X1950 XTX CrossFire Edition has a R580+ GPU only difference is the 256Bit GDDR4, Bios chip as Cooler, for the rest it's very identical it's a Rev.B 0629 year 2006 week 29 which was released begin Q3 2006

The X1950 XTX as X1950 XTX CFE were designed to test the GDDR4 memory type with the 512Bit Ringbus memory controller of the R580 VPU, and this test kinda proved it's great success.

The X1950 XTX CFE combined with the X1900 XTX really makes a very powerfull 3D render unit, delivering a max memory bandwidth of 115,4 GB per sec, there by beating a single GeForce 8800 GTX, which only does 84,6 GB per sec max.

The more memory bandwidth the more fps and better gameplay with max FSAA +Adaptive AA + AFHQ + HDR settings at high reso's as what I kinda found out by using this combination in C&C3 as Flight Simulator X and that's kinda future proof for an old architechture like that of the R580.

I wonder how futureproof the R600 will be, since a single X2900 XTX will do 153,4 GB per sec while a single X2900 XT will deliver 143.2 GB per sec, also not too shabby.

My next step is a crossfire setup of 2 X2900 XTX cards :) but that will be later this year ;)

wrote on 14.03.07 at 19:40:42:

Well I have been testing the Command & Conquer3 demo on my X1900 XTX + X1950 XTX CrossFire Edition CrossFire setup at maxx details @ reso 1440x 900 x32 FSAA x14, AF x16HQ, Adaptive AA as HDR at max settings, I must say that Direcx9.0c still looks very demanding!:o Just look at all that Motion Blur! :o

I must admit, that there seems to be a little bit too much motion blur for my taste. It look's like that terain has no textures, but only a smudged imitation of computer art. I dare to say that even the grandfather-game C&C 1 had better terain. I hope that gameplay is better then the graphics; since I'we grown up with C&C strategies...

well I kinda forgot the MipMap settings hahah no wonder why it was so blurry!

so now it looks like this with max Mip mapping image quallity and yes it looks alot better espeacially the details and so on.
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/19304-2/C_amp_C3mipmapmax+a.png
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/19330-2/C_amp_C3Takeoff.png
click to enlarge :)

Still Red Alert2 + Yuri's Revenge is my big favour of all C&C's though C&C3 TW is the best 3D C&C ever ;)

Well got some nice news now :)

here some pics from the RV610 Budget range aka X2300 series
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screenshots/small/Imgp5544.jpg http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screenshots/small/Imgp5545.jpg http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screenshots/small/Imgp5546.jpg http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screenshots/small/Imgp5547.jpg

RV630 midrange card aka X2600 series:
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screenshots/small/Imgp5542.jpg http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screenshots/small/Imgp5541.jpg http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screenshots/small/Imgp5543.jpg http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screenshots/small/Imgp5539.jpg


R630XT aka X2600 XT
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screenshots/small/Imgp5548.jpg http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screenshots/small/Imgp5452.jpg http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screenshots/small/Imgp5526.jpg http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screenshots/small/Imgp5549.jpg

here the source!
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?article_id=571589

In the dutch forum the AMD insider says that that big card is an ATi RV630 XT card.

Well here's more, got this via the dutch ATi resource forum :)

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost.php?p=1334851342&postcount=3637

I have uploaded the pics elsewhere, just incase they get removed ;) Read from left to right.
http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/t349458_amdpkr6001.jpg http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/t349460_amdpkr6002.jpg http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/t349463_amdpkr6003.jpg http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/t349465_amdpkr6004.jpg http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/t349469_amdpkr6005.jpg http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/t349471_amdpkr6006.jpg http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/t349472_amdpkr6007.jpg http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/t349473_amdpkr6008.jpg http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/t349475_amdpkr6009.jpg http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/t349477_amdpkr60010.jpg http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/t349483_amdpkr60011.jpg

heh as real as it gets my friends :)

And here some benchmark results from the R630XT aka X2600XT! w00t!
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4795

"As our sources revealed that RV630XT will score over 12K in 3DMark05 which is in fact faster than a X1900 XTX card."

also something interesting :)
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/news/127

The fist notebok is ready from MSI btw :)
ut has a RV630M in it orsay ATi Radeon X2600 XT M with an AMD Turion64 X2 kind of a logic setup since the AMD + ATi Co-Op.
http://uk.theinquirer.net/images/articles/MSI_GX710_RV630M.jpg

here some new shots of the X2900 XTX Retail card from VR-Zone :D
http://resources.vr-zone.com/newspics/Mar07/17/R600-vrzone.jpg
http://resources.vr-zone.com/newspics/Mar07/17/R600-vrzone1.jpg

here the source:
http://resources.vr-zone.com/newspics/Mar0...R600-vrzone.jpg

The Good news is that the X2900 XT PCI-E 512MB GDDR3 will be about 500 euro's when it hit's the shelves, which is good news for the lads that are going for that card type :)
Got this from the dutch ATi news & Discussion topic @ Gathering Of Tweakers.net which was posted by user CJ
http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/1203478/3

On the CeBiT AMD showed a new Physics demo this time the physics demo was developed togeather with Havok which took usage of the first HavokFX engine which ran on an X1900 XTX, the first game that is going to utilize this technology is called Hellgate: London, which will be also the first DX10 game to launch which supports HavokFX.

while rendering the physics demo on a CPU it only got 3 to 13 fps when the X1900 XTX was used as astream processor with HavokFX the FPS were greatly increased by 40 to 100fps!
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screenshots/medium/Physik7_resize.JPG

So thanx to this the R600 will be on time for the latest DX10 titles where it was actually designed for, so the delay isn't that bad as it seemed to be in the first place ;)
here's the source:
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?article_id=571782

..it seems like ati really means businness-even for agp users:

http://www.theinq.com/images/articles/GeCube_X1950XT_AGP.jpg


Quote:

GECUBE DEMOSTRATED  the fastest AGP board to date, here in Hanover - the nicelt labelled GC-HX195XTGA3-D3. This board is based on a fully-fledged R580+ GPU, marrketed as the Radeon X1950XT. However, the GPU clock has been changed from default 625MHz to 648MHz - the default clock of the X1950XTX. ATI Overdrive is supported, and this option in the Catalyst driver will increase clock all the way to 675MHz. Memory is not 512MB GDDR4, which is what the X1950XTX has - but rather 256MB of GDDR3 memory. µ Both product manager and PR rep told us the firm "will not abandon AGP users". We asked about the continuing contraction of the AGP market, but were told that the demand for AGP is still very strong. In fact, AGP accounts for the lion's share of some markets. So for those users that want a AGP perfromance part this company will offer DirectX 10 boards based on RV610 and RV630. In fact, there will even be an overclocked version of the RV630XT, which could even end up cooled by a combined heat-pipe peltier cooler.

they even plan dx10 agp parts!


http://www.theinq.com/default.aspx?article=38288

yeaps they sure do read that in the dutch ATi forums as well :)

that GeCube card is simply an OC'ed X1950XT which runs core/mem @ 648Mhz / 1800 Mhz DDR [900Mhz GDDR3 Physical]

the real X1950 XTX runs faster :) core/mem 650Mhz / 2000 Mhz DDR [1000Mhz GDDR4 Physical]

it\s that GDDR3 is maxed out @ 900 Mhz Physical, some samples may be able to run faster but not all so therefore it runs 900Mhz physical instead of 1000 Mhz physical :)

But yeah it's great to hear that AMD.ATi is willing to make AGP versions of their X2.xx series probably the X2600XT  AGP [RV630XT] as the X2800XT AGP [RV670XT] shall be made in AGP flavours for the high end gamer, where as the X2900 XL/ XT/ XTX series [R600] will only be made for the PCI-Express enthousiasts.


The main advantage of ATi is that they think of every gamers needs as for PCI-Express as AGP where as nVidia does not LoL ;D

Obi, AMD (DAAMIT) is not going to use XT/XTX suffix any more; it's decided. Only 'pro' and something similar.

Anyway, I wanted to ask if any of you soft-modded your ATI cards in it's FireGL sister? I just modded mobility radeon 9600 into mobility FireGL T2 and I'm waiting for specview to download so that I may test OpenGL performance... So far - it seems that it works...

A driver change and you get a card that costs a few hundred (or thousands) bucks more  :)

wrote on 18.03.07 at 00:26:48:

Obi, AMD (DAAMIT) is not going to use XT/XTX suffix any more; it's decided. Only 'pro' and something similar. Anyway, I wanted to ask if any of you soft-modded your ATI cards in it's FireGL sister? I just modded mobility radeon 9600 into mobility FireGL T2 and I'm waiting for specview to download so that I may test OpenGL performance... So far - it seems that it works... A driver change and you get a card that costs a few hundred (or thousands) bucks more  :)

what? where did you get info from ? I see no sources?

Of course ATi is making the XT as XTX models ::)
the X2900 XT will launch en of March and the X2900 XTX will launch end of April ;) I got this from a dutch AMD.ATi insider who has connections with ATi partnerships and also works on ATi drivers.

his info is 9 of the 10 times realistic so better believe it, there is a X2900 XT as X2900 XTX comming it;s also very obvious:

http://www.xfastest.com/viewthread.php?tid=1471

over there they have some test results of a X2900 XTX hmm and you said there was no XTX comming, Now I find that kind of odd don't you .. ::)

here some nice news from the inquierer
http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=38300

The launch of the R600 is gonna be the biggest in GPU history heh I adore that !!! 8)

wrote on 18.03.07 at 12:58:45:

what? where did you get info from ? I see no sources?

Sorry, I forgot: Fuad Abazovic, ex-Inquirer
http://www.itx.ba/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=193&Itemid=1
You are going to need google translator to translate from serbo/croatian/bosnian to english or dutch.
Nobody says that R600 is not a good card, nor do somebody claims that there is not going to be a top, flagship model of new R600. Fuad just said that DAAMIT is not going to use that nomenclature any more - the difference will only be in the amount of memory on the card (amd maybe a slight change of clocks).

and who is Fuad? The best ex-news writer for the Inquirer
http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=26955 - loved by ATI
http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=37863 - adored by Inq
http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=37798 - and his fans worldwide

So, I am not sure who that insider of yours is, but this guy is real.

heh it will be, my dutch forum is very reliable ;) all what I have posted is translated elfuego , you sound abit pro NV, but I don't mind that, ATi will PWN this time like NV did with their G80 a good 5,5 mounths ago.

This time the pages will turn to the red camp ;)

Newsflash: OCZ wants in on R600
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/03/16/oc...nts_in_on_r600/

"OCZ wants to leverage its strong relationship with AMD so that it can release R600 based products."

R600 VPU:
http://www.bit-tech.net/news_images/ocz_wants_in_on_r600/article_img.jpg

"In related news, we managed to get a sneak peek at an almost final working version of a card based on R600 on another stand at the show. We weren't allowed to take photos, and I'm fairly sure that we weren't even supposed to see it (based on the fact there were 'no press' signs all over the place). However, we can say that it's looking like the retail card will be considerably smaller than the prototype pictured earlier in the month."

wrote on 18.03.07 at 13:20:38:

heh it will be, my dutch forum is very reliable ;) all what I have posted is translated elfuego , you sound abit pro NV,

I am only being objective, friend; in my soul and heart, I am a 3Dfx guy. Nowadays, that there is no more 3Dfx, I am using only the card I need. In the DirectX 8.x time, NV was the better choice; when R300 (R9700) arrived - it was the perfect card for me. As for today... I must say that I am again for Radeon x1x00 (OR the new R600) out of one simple reason: IT'S 100% soft-FireGL moddable!!! If you'd asked me just yesterday, the choise would have been NV, because it has better bang for the buck then ATI (I mean GF7x00 series) - but only in games AND Linux.

BUT - since the introduction of next gen accelerators, NV has purposly hardware-disabled the possibility of professional-modding (softQuadroFX - DISABLED) and that makes my choice clear -> ATI for the time beign...

Oh, by the way - I just modded my mobility Radeon 9600 into a full-blooded mobility FireGL T2! I got a performance increase in OpenGL apps of ~250%! That's what I call bang for the buck!  8)

wrote on 18.03.07 at 13:06:48:

Sorry, I forgot: Fuad Abazovic, ex-Inquirer http://www.itx.ba/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=193&Itemid=1 You are going to need google translator to translate from serbo/croatian/bosnian to english or dutch. Nobody says that R600 is not a good card, nor do somebody claims that there is not going to be a top, flagship model of new R600. Fuad just said that DAAMIT is not going to use that nomenclature any more - the difference will only be in the amount of memory on the card (amd maybe a slight change of clocks). and who is Fuad? The best ex-news writer for the Inquirer http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=26955 - loved by ATI http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=37863 - adored by Inq http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=37798 - and his fans worldwide So, I am not sure who that insider of yours is, but this guy is real.

heh The Inquierer orsay the center of false gossip eh?

That Dutch insider is the most reliable ATi source out here in the BeNeLuX system, don't be too skeptical on that Inquierer site since it's the most unreliable source for true info, since it's 95% fasle in new info based on newgen ATi cards. ;)

One thing The Inquierer is fraud not the durtch insider which is 90% of the times right in case of AMD + ATi info.

heh nVidians think mostly the oppisite ::)

I like ATi cards as much as 3dfx cards because they are in most cases better qua drivers and have better Image quallity + 3dfx cards still PWN incombination with ATi cards ;)


heh got some nice news and findings from the Dutch ATi forum :)

an ATi OEM R600 XTX Prototype on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160095063471
http://i9.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/91/b1/92b6_1.JPG
http://i4.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/91/b1/93d4_1.JPG
http://i22.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/91/b1/9340_1.JPG
http://i2.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/91/b1/9443_1.JPG

okay this ain't an ebay thread but something like this was really worth posting ;)

here a nice PDF about a Dual Quad Core AMD CPU setup with CrossFire R600 XTX :O ;D
http://developer.amd.com/assets/GDC2007_Multicore_JB.pdf

here a nice Jetway ATi Radeon X1950 Pro PCI-E with 256MB GDDR4 @ 2200Mhz DDR [1100Mhz Physical] !

That's more than 70GB per sec for the memory bandwidth heh not bad for a mid range card eh? 8)
http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/t359021_X1950ProGDDR4.jpg

http://www.guru3d.com/article/article/422/22/

Hmm...looks like he changed his mind... ::)


Quote:

The seller ended this listing early because the item was lost or broken.

wrote on 19.03.07 at 23:55:05:

Hmm...looks like he changed his mind... ::)

or someone ask for 200$ buy it now and seller think ohh nice ::)

okay here some more news of a Physics demo being run on an Ati R600 VPU, heh I must say that Water never looked so real on a PC before :O
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=8013

"Take a massively parallel architecture like a GPU - say, R600 - and get it to do advanced physics simulation. This is what you get..."
http://img.hexus.net/v2/news/ati_physics/sloshed.jpg

here a real photo of the REAL Ruby ;D
http://www.wingedmammal.com/action_photos_2005/IMG_1911.jpg
here the power connectors of the X2900 XT / XTX Retail card:
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screenshots/medium/1174220580601.jpg

and a nice GeCube Gemini 2 Dual X1650XT card, it has 2 ATi RV560 VPU's on one board each VPU carring 256MB 128Bit GDDR3 :)
http://www.gecube.com/cms_file.php?id=2465
http://www.gecube.com/products-detail.php?prod_cat_pid=&prod_cat_id=168&prod_id=63946

Some preliminary results...

"Using a Core 2 Extreme 2.93GHz processor on an Intel 975X board, the 3DMark06 score at 1600x1200 resolution is 97xx on the R600XTX compared to 95xx on the 8800GTX. Seems like R600XTX is running slightly faster than 8800GTX on the early release of drivers for R600."

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4830

That's marginaly :( Let's hope that the new drivers fix this...

it's a real beauty allright :)

http://resources.vr-zone.com//newspics/Mar07/19/R600-vrzone3.jpg
http://resources.vr-zone.com//newspics/Mar07/19/R600-vrzone6.jpg

heh if they ran the same tests on the same reso on that 8800GTX it would of been alot slower in comparrison to the R600XTX so then again the Pro nVidian site VR-Zone posts it that was to make it look less spectacular :') ::)

the X2900 XTX crushes the 8800GTX by a mile with ease, they are just too afraid to admit it ::) stupid nvidiots lol.

ahh.. my school is out. I have done all my matriculation exams. Thats why I had been out.

I hope that all new generation radeons hit markets at same in whole world(including Finland). Hopefully Ati keep prices low. I have untouched motherboard waiting new parts. Now school is out so i can look for a job then i get paid and I can finally buy rest parts for my new computer(Intel E4300,2GB ddr2, X2600)  ;D

Well my 9800pro has been sad since it heard about it is going to be replaced. So i gave a little present for it to make it feel better:  :)

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4977/9800pro007is5.jpg
!!RAM COOLERS!!

wrote on 20.03.07 at 19:28:31:

it's a real beauty allright :) heh if they ran the same tests on the same reso on that 8800GTX it would of been alot slower in comparrison to the R600XTX so then again the Pro nVidian site VR-Zone posts it that was to make it look less spectacular :') ::) the X2900 XTX crushes the 8800GTX by a mile with ease, they are just too afraid to admit it ::) stupid nvidiots lol.

nvidiots? atidiots? It's either nVidia or ATi or idiots. It would be nice if you stop saying 'nvidiots' :)
If it's up to me I rather read normal news about ATi. Not pro-ATi news and nVidia bashing. I hope you get the point :)

Btw, I already said this before: page 8 (click!)

wrote on 07.02.07 at 18:41:27:

Why are you saying that the topic should be closed? That useless and dumb. If it's up to me the topic can stay open and people can discuss about ATi as long as the useless fanboy stuff is stopped. After all I'm (and probably lot's of other people too) not interested in 'how great ATi is and that nVidia, VIA, SiS and Intel sucks all day'. I just want information about the latest ATi chips. Real numbers, real stories and no useless fanboy stuff. Is it that hard to talk about brands in an objective way?

wrote on 21.03.07 at 17:48:04:

nvidiots? atidiots? It's either nVidia or ATi or idiots. It would be nice if you stop saying 'nvidiots' :) If it's up to me I rather read normal news about ATi. Not pro-ATi news and nVidia bashing. I hope you get the point :) Btw, I already said this before: page 8 (click!)

I call the lads from VR Zone "Stupid nVidiots/nvidians" because they can't admit that ATi has the biggest lead in DX 10 technology, I just sensed their fear that they are too afraid to admit that the ATi R600 is alot better, with the latest driver it does alot more, I got this from the dutch ATi source, and so far all the info I got from them is true so far ;)

And I have my reasons about nvidia cards, It's just that ATi & 3dfx gave me a more reliable feeling and better gaming experience.

@ Mansfield

heh those ram coolers look alot like the ram coolers of my old Hercules 3D Prophet 9700 Pro :)

Look ;D
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/7573-2/DSC00991.jpg http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/7580-2/DSC00994.jpg

wrote on 21.03.07 at 21:10:34:

I call the lads from VR Zone "Stupid nVidiots/nvidians" because they can't admit that ATi has the biggest lead in DX 10 technology,

Let me remind you friend, ATi *STILL* doesn't have ANY DX10 cards on the market, and NV has it - for a half a year now. Please, be more realistic, ok? :)

wrote on 22.03.07 at 00:05:27:

Let me remind you friend, ATi *STILL* doesn't have ANY DX10 cards on the market, and NV has it - for a half a year now. Please, be more realistic, ok? :)

Mkaaay like that those GF 8800 GTX ever proved that they can render DX10 that well while there aren't even DX10 apps out there ::)

At least ATi took the time to get their product right, where as NV rushed off their product as seen with other cards just to get it on the market, yes they earned money with it but in most cases a CrossFire setup of 2 X1900 /X1950 XTX class cards beated a single 8800GTX with ease, which was kind of a dissapointment for such a card of that callibre.

ATi always had the upperhand in later API's than that of Nvidia, the X1800/1900 as 1950 series okay these were later but they did do ShaderModel 3.0 the right way.

Thereby do'n FSAA + HDR + AFHQ combined, nVidia failed to get this to work on their GeForce 7 series in a combined way, even their geForce 6 series suffered the same problem.

In the review you will see that in mosts tests a single 8800GTX is almost nowhere 100% faster than a single X1950 XTX:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gf8800-games.html
It's an old test with older drivers, Cat 6.11 was used, with cat 6.12 the performace would of gained 12% overall on all X1900/1950 cards.

So it was quite obvious that 2 cards from ATi technology of Q4 2005 beat a single G8 GTX, people that had a X1900 XTX like me for like 5 to 7 mounths would only had to buy a X1950 XTX CrossFire Edition card for like 300 euro's cheaper and the G80 was beaten allround.

the HL2 engine was made to run on ATi VPU's
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/gf8800-games/hl2eo_16x.gif
As you see here with max reso + FSAA, HDR & AFHQ settings 2 R580 class VPU's beat the quad SLI setup as the G80 it's self.

But in other apps the G80 was slightly faster.

as for Prey which is built on the advanced Doom3 engine an OpenGL 2.0 app the R580 CF setup takes the lead
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/gf8800-games/prey_16x.gif

even in Quake4 the R580 CF setup takes the lead @ max eyecandy + max reso:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/gf8800-games/q4_16x.gifp

that's the smart design of the dual 512Bit Ringbus memory controllers at work there.

Their GeForce 8 series was the first to get that working right, only even it is a DX10 card it never could prove that it would function properly in DX10 now did it? ::) Drool.

as over here the 8800 GTX takes a small lead but it's minmal fps is lower than that of the Quad SLI setup as CF setup:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/gf8800-games/sam_16x.gif

It would of been smarter for NV just to launch a new DX9.0c card instead it would of saved alot of money.

So then again that ATi is launching their R600 so late, isn't really such a problem since that DX10 apps aren't out yet it's wiser to launch it somewhat later than somewhat way too early, thereby the new model can get extra attention before finals, it's just a much smarter way of do'n.

But over here the CrossFire setup takes a big lead even the minimal fps is alot hogher than that of it's contestants.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/gf8800-games/scell_16x.gif

over here it depends where you are in the game sometimes the CrossFire setup is as fast as the 8800GTX
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/gf8800-games/tesin_hdr.gif

And in other levels the GeFoce 8800 GTX is a bit faster :)
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/gf8800-games/tesout_hdr.gif

it really depends on what you are running at most times, for FlightSimulator X in DX9.0c mode under XP pro I prefer using  my CrossFire setup under DX10 a 8800GTX, but it would be wiser to wait for the X2900 XT / XTX models , since they will be alot faster and give better image quallity as well, something well known from Ati cards.

As from here I rest my case.

Hm, IMHO unfair comparing two Cards (with 2x the Power consumption & noise) vs. one card.

Put two 8800 in SLI, and I call it correct benchmarking again ;)

Right now there is basically no discussion that NVidia does not have any competition on the top end of line, apart from the power consumption being too high for my personal tast it simply is the most powerful card with no catch attached to it (price maybe).

The extreme Resolution beches even show how far ahead it is of anything else on market, even the Crossfire setups are no match against a single card, all other benches are obviously significantly CPU limited.

Technically, one could say that it is even too powerful, as there's even really little or no challenge for it available for serious testing (neither Games nor Benchmarks, it just tears through it like butter). Make it an SLI rig, and it gets even more insane, more performance than anyone could possibly use today...

well those benchmarks I listed showed that a a crossfire setup of 2 X1950 XTX class cards was sufficiant in most cases to defeat the 384 Bit monster :) as most of the X-Bit Labs tests show clearly.

As you can see the a single 8800GTX was in most tests never 100% faster than even a single X1950 XTX, even if the CPU was a bottleneck a safter CPU would let the the 8800GTX run faster true, so would the X1950 XTX CrossFire setup as it always comes from both sides.

Splinter Cell gave a very good example where the X1950 XTX CF setup really crushes the 8800 GTX:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/gf8800-games/scell_16x.gif

That's with Max reso of 1600 x 1200 & 1920 x 1200 as with FSAA x14 AF x16HQ or max AF x16HQ + max HDR settings 8)

Okay what ever about those NV cards, since this is an ATi discussion topic let's keep it that way!

Well I got some more pics of the ATi Radeon X2900 XTX Retail model, the cooler can be viewed alot better this time, it's a shame of those tweak town banners on the pics ::)
http://quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/6654X2900%20XTX.jpg http://quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/3173X2900%20XTX%20b.jpg http://quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/9012X2900%20XTX%20c.jpg

here's the source:
http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1069/amd_r600_retail_radeon_x2900xtx_better_photos_immerge/index.html

wrote on 22.03.07 at 12:12:46:

a single 8800 GTX was 2x the speed of a X1950 XTX , while it wasn't, it was  only overal 77% faster in some cases it was 89% faster

Read between the lines (bolded) - even Obi acknowledged that! Well, Obi, this time, I totally agree with you!  8)

It's what I have trying to say many all the time, I have the feeling some don't even read my posts propperly ::) but it was never 100% faster, that NEVER happened even with a faster CPU or system setup the R580's like the G80 are very scalable on that behalf.

but then again we are all from different places and heh mis agreements happen from time :) norries there lads 8)

when X2600s' hits the markets I'm gonna buy one...

BUT

if AMD-ATI runs low price politic SO how about a corssfire system
What crossfire motherboard do you recommend for LGA775 socket(not so expensive below 100€ perhaps)?

Do you think LC-power 420W is enough for X2600(and for crossfire(maybe not))??

take an AMD Mobo it's AMD + ATi so when AM3 comes out that core will easilly crush the Conroe's :) and the advantage is if you have  Socket AM2 mobo, with a small bios flash you can place the Socket AM3 CPU's with out a problem :)


My advice? go for the MSI K9A Platinum with AMD 580X chipset the best for ATi Graphics cards for CrossFire setups.

You don't need intel when you can take an ATi card, just take an AMD Athlon64 X2 5200+ with a nice X2600XT in CF that's fast enough to run Crysis @ max settings in DX10 mode.

the AMD580X is also the most stable chipset for ATi CrossFire setups and aslo the fastest  chipset for ATi CrossFire setups with AMD CPU setups.

well I already have a 775 mobo(waiting for new E4300)
and Intel has better power/price ratio right now

actually I hav always had Intel CPUs(286, 386, 486, Pentium 100MHz, P2 300MHz, P3 800MHz) and this duron is an exeption.(but still waiting something bone-crushing product from AMD 8) )

so I was thinking ASrock CONROEXFIRE-ESATA2 (OMG how expensive are CF MoBos from other manufacturers  :o )

hmm I have some Intels here though AMD always had the best price performance factor even now an A64 X2 3800+ setup is a nice low cost performace CPU with a nice MSI K9A Platinum AMD 580X mobo anyways I'm a more Opteron guy, I prefer max stabillity at heavy stressed applications that is where the Opteron get's it's advatages with it's ECC reg memory which is qua price performance cheaper and in most cases faster than the Xeon setups.

for the Desktop the E6400 [Conroe] is a nice CPU indeed, but for me it would be not sufficiant for my Workstation needs ;)

I'd say take MSI or ASUS, AsRock is a cheap and bad quallity C brand.
At the computer shop where i worked, 9 of the 10 RMA's were AsRock Motherboards ::) It didn't matter what type it was if it was an Intel or AMD based board , it had many stabillity problems or it was defect heh.

Then I rather go for an A brand board with a much better reliabillity as quallity than that low budget stuff.

wrote on 26.03.07 at 01:16:10:

hmm I have some Intels here though AMD always had the best price performance factor

This is a lie. You obviously need a history lecture: Until first athlons arrived, AMD was allways  a few hundred miles behind intel - yes, it was cheaper but not as much as it was weaker. I don't know if you remember old 486, or AMD K5 based CPUs - they were nothing compared with genuine intel. For example, K5 133Mhz was an equivalent of 75Mhz Pentium! The history repeated itselft with K6 - it was nothing compared to Pentium MMX. A pentium MMX 200Mhz was in many cases better then K6 266Mhz. And let's not mention Pentium Pro @200Mhz... Then the first Celerons 300A combined with a BX pro MB - that was a dream combo, much, much, much faster and stabler (even cheaper, when combined with MB) then K6-2 (or 3) @500Mhz.

Then came the first athlon CPUs and for the first time in history did AMD get the performance/price ratio crown with a Duron Spitfire. Intel got it back with a Tualatin celeron a year later and then lost it again to Athlon XP T-bred. Then came the first opteron-based cluster servers that blew away xeons "on the paper", but the companies are still using xeons (it's very hard to change the thing that works good). After that - with the coming of Athlon 64 - the prices of new AMD CPUs are getting near to the ones of Intel CPUs and some CPUs are even more expensive then the intel equivalents - again, for the first time in history. For a short period of time, Venice 64 hold the performance/price cronw, but lost it with the new gen CPUs from Intel. Now, they HAD to lower the prices because they have apsolutely no CPU on the market to compete with Core 2 duo.

As for the cherry on top of this all, let me tell you that the BEST price/performance ration TODAY holds Core 2 duo 4300, a CPU that in many, many cases overclocks from 1.8Ghz stock to 3.6Ghz - a 100% overclock! World record in stock overclocking! As such, it beats the best CPU nowadays - Core 2 Duo x6800. Try and find an AMD CPU in that price range with that performance. You're going to need either N20 cooling system or a few hundred bucks more to get that performance for the price.

Oh and one more thing - in mobile market (laptops) there is no good solution from AMD. The old mobile CPUs from AMD don't even deserve to be mentioned. Modern turions 64 are not that bad, but still much worse then C2D, or even the old Banias/Dothan (centrino -M). I think I shed some light on this subject now.

In the end, may I humbly ask - why are you so blindly narrow-sighted with DAAMIT? Don't get me wrong, I used ATI/NV/3Dfx/Miro cards and Intel/AMD/IBM CPUs, and I allways admired AMD (and still using it), but I admit to facts - it's not that shiny as you show it. As isn't ATI (and I am happily using ATI AIW x800XT/mobility FIRE GL T2)

wrote on 25.03.07 at 17:58:35:

well I already have a 775 mobo(waiting for new E4300) and Intel has better power/price ratio right now so I was thinking ASrock CONROEXFIRE-ESATA2 (OMG how expensive are CF MoBos from other manufacturers  :o )

You won't make a mistake with that CPU. But please, get a good, stable, overclokable mainboard. Either Asus, Abit or DFI - everything else is garbage when compared. I cannot say that MSI is bad, but it's just as good as Gigabyte and Gigabyte is cheaper ;) Don't take Asrock - it's the daughter company of Asus with its production-line in China (not in Taiwan) and with components of lower quality then original Asus.

With Mainboards should nobody make compromizes: it's the backbone of a system. If MB is strong and stable, you will get the maximum out of all the other components (CPU, Video card, Memory, HDD...).

Well. ASrock isn't so good(like this K7S8X doesn't want run this 9800pro with 8x agp speed) brand but good to those who doesn't demand so much. but I chose my 775dual-vsta because both AGP and PCI-E support. When it is time to set up a crossfire system I'll buy a motherboard from better brand, because it's better to pay more for better perform.

BTW my big bro' needs a new agp videocard. He doesn't spend much on computers but wants to play new games. He prefer ATI so do you think that X1550 or X1650 is good enough run new games

wrote on 26.03.07 at 09:18:23:

BTW my big bro' needs a new agp videocard. He doesn't spend much on computers but wants to play new games. He prefer ATI so do you think that X1550 or X1650 is good enough run new games

Unfortunately, it is not. It would be smarter to try to get an old x800XT or similar - they are cheap and still powerfull enough to get you going. Either that, or Geforce 7600GT AGP/7900GS AGP - both of them are much better choice then x1650. X1550 is a cripple card, not a gamers card. With it, you might play minesweeper and so, but Crysis, Oblivion or Stalker - no way.

yeaps got a nice ASUS AX800 XT Platinum Edition AGP 256MB GDDR3 Rev.B 0441 still going strong here! w00t !, how ever a  X1650XT is about 40% faster than a X850 XT PE AGP since it has the much faster GDDR3 memory okay it is 128 Bit do keep in mind that the RV560 VPU has 24 Pixelshader Processors compared to the 16 of the X850 XT PE as X800 XT PE cards.
the RV560 aslo has more Vertex schader power there by having 8 Vertexshader processors compared to the 6 on the X800XT PE as X850 XT PE cards.

Overall a singel X1650XT is faster in DX9.0c apps as a GeForce 7600GT, where as 40% faster than it's older X1600XT brother.

here a nice benchmark of the two :)
ATi radeon X1650XT versus nVidia GeForce 7600GT 8)
http://www.techspot.com/review/31-radeon-x1650xt-vs-geforce-7600gt/page2.html

"The new Radeon X1650XT is everything the original X1600XT should have been with performance at least on par, and usually greater than the GeForce 7600GT. The newer more demanding games such as F.E.A.R and X3: Reunion were the X1650XT specialties, as the additional pixel pipelines really came into play in these games. Even the games that are typically biased towards Nvidia, such as Quake 4 and Prey, had a hard time shutting down the X1650XT."

ati X1650 seems to be ok!

btw this duron-9800pro system runs well Prey. and not all configuration options are at low. and fps is abowe 30 i think ;D

hmm nice, Prey on a Voodoo 5 6000 shopuld be possible too since it's based on the Doom3 engine ;D

hmm... even with Voodoo2 SLI ;D , like doom3 was able to run with on v2sli  :D

yeaps ;D 3dfx still rules overall haha so funny even that CS-Source ran on a Voodoo3 3000 AGP LOL

wrote on 26.03.07 at 16:59:07:

yeaps ;D 3dfx still rules overall haha so funny even that CS-Source ran on a Voodoo3 3000 AGP LOL

:o gotta try that immediately. I think that even Ati rage128 fury maxx can't run it

wrote on 26.03.07 at 16:44:33:

ati X1650 seems to be ok!

Yes, but don't just look at the charts - read the article given completely:
"The availability of the Radeon X1650XT is a worry given that samples were available two months ago when the product was launched, yet retail versions are still very difficult to come by. Furthermore, ATI has slapped a MSRP of $150 on the cards, though it is said that for at least the first few weeks the X1650XT will not meet this price tag. If this is the case then it could certainly be a matter of too little too late from ATI, particularly given the fact that the X1650XT is not DirectX 10 compliant."

And You've mentioned x1550 and x1650 (lower price range) - I'd dare to say, you thought on x1650pro and not XT? If so, then look at this:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=529&model2=590&chart=215
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=529&model2=590&chart=199


and if you dislike a comparison to an Nvidia card, take a look at this:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=575&model2=590&chart=199

Comparison between x800XT AGP ( 34FPS ) and x1650pro (20 FPS)

You can check the same out for Oblivion:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=575&model2=590&chart=205
or, 7600GT vs x1650pro:
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=529&model2=590&chart=205

Anyway, I know what I'm saying - somebody would like to belive that x16x0XT is better then x800XT, but it just isn't. Forget about shaders. 40% faster? Only in 3Dmark and only XT version.


wrote on 26.03.07 at 16:04:05:

how ever a  X1650XT is about 40% faster than a X850 XT PE AGP

This is what I call, a good dream  ;D


Here's what I mean 39 FPS (x850 XT PE) vs 29 FPS (x1650XT):
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/6717/fear02dq6.th.png
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/3718/fearqk4.th.gif

PLEASE NOTE:
x1650 was run on: - Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 (2.66GHz), - Corsair PC2-6400 2GB DDR2,  ASUS P5W DH Deluxe (Intel 975X)

x850 on : AMD Athlon64 3200+, 2x 512 MB Micron DDR 333MHz CL 2.5 3-3-6, MSI K8T Neo

So, undoubtebly x1650 was favoured in the rest of hardware and still it loses. x850 is cca 35% faster then x1650XT  8)

hehe comparing Fear 1.0 and 1.3 which was used on the X1650XT is a very BIG difference since path 1.3 makes Fear have more heavier textures therefore the lesser fps, a X850 XT PE wouldn't like that.

since it lacks shadermodel 3.0 ;)

it's that the X850XT PE renders in Shader Model 2.0B the 6800Ultra as X1650XT render in ShaderModel3.0 but yeaps the X850XT PE has the advantage of 256bit GDDR3 true there :)

But in other games the X1650XT can be alot faster than the 850.

About those benches :

Mind that these may very likely come from different Scenes being benchmarked, so they're not comparable (the first is a recorded Demo, the second apparently the internal Benchmark - who knows)

For all I know, the Radeon X1650 class was a major step up from the X1600 class (which was often found slower than expected and - as you mentioned - indeed fell beind the older X800/850 series)
In comparison, the X1950 only gained some ~7% over the X1900 as it marked the end of their possibilities at the time of release.

yes very true :) but Norries I will bench Fear on my X800XT PE AGP in my upcomming Dual OpteronDC 280 soon and we'll see how long the R420 can play along :)

I don't know about Fear or some of the other games. I know my X850 Pro (256 meg)  ran smoother then a regular X1600 512 meg Pro card with a faster processor. At a lan party with a friend who's got that card and was amazed at how much better my card was playing CoD2 and Splinter Cell played compared to his box. I'm waiting for him to get aload out of my 1950 pro now  ;D  But that, for me, was proof enough that even the 1650's aren't as good as the X850's especially since mine was at stock clock speeds. OC's the pro's to the XTPE edition would bring that gap even further apart.  

well in Germany the GeCube X1950XT AGP Turbo's are available in full quanities :D that's my goal allrighty!

Yeah, well piss off....  ;D   I can't get it here yet (that was being said with all the love in my heart.) hehehe    and was only kidding.   ;)  

wrote on 26.03.07 at 23:03:56:

Yeah, well piss off....  ;D    (that was being said with all the love in my heart.) hehehe    and was only kidding.   ;)

Well Jan the X1950XT AGP Turbo is planned for the Dual OpteronDC 280.

and yeps selling the CrossFire Rig it's far too powerfull for what i nneed it for, not great for rendering 3D on pure CPU power, need Opteron Dual Cores for that, Since I don't want Intel, I stick to AMD Opteron Dual Cores in SMP setup of 2 CPU's :) The Motherboard has been ordered and is one the way, the MSI MS-9617 K8T Master2-FAR7 with AGP Pro x8 50Watt slot good enough for a nice X1950 XT Turbo might eb able to mod it to a FireGL model 8)

Still rocking on my good and trust R420 XT PE AGP from ASUS, it's something hard to leave behind still having so much fun with it, anyways it's in the AthlonXP 2700+ in AGP x4 mode but even in the moderate system it can run F.E.A.R. Combat 1.3 with out problems @ 1280 x 1024 x32 max settings! I was like Crikey quite amazing for such an old system setup most parts like CPU, memory, Motherboard HDD's are liek 5 years old the X800XT PE AGP is from week 41 year 2004 so he's about 3 years old now.

In other words your system even with the X850 Pro would kick the crap out of mine hahahaha  ;D

Greetings from teh LIMECAT LooL ;D

Damn! Very cool.   :)  I'm suprised my system's last as long as it has. For the most part it's going on 3/4 years old. I've had some upgrades here and there but for the most part? She's getting old. The new card put some added life into her, that's for sure.   ;D


Don't think it'd actually kick the crap out of yours beat it, yeah but not by that much of a margin.

LOL and lime cat looks like he needs some katnip or something.   ;D

well my main AGP system setup now is :

AMD AthlonXP 2700+
ASUS A7V333-R VIA Apollo KT333 [Main 3dfx flying testbed also]
1x Twinpack 2x 512MB PC-2700 Kingston Valueram
ASUS AX800XT Platinum Edition AGP 256MB GDDR3 Rev.B 0441 8)
3dfx Voodoo 5 5500 PCI 64MB Rev.A1 2900
Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy2 Platinum eX[ Gift from dad, really]
1x Seagate Barracuda V 120GB 7200,7 rpm ATA HDD
Thermaltake Pure Power 520Watt EPS 12V with Power Station 5,25" Docking bay
LG 48.16x DVD Rom Player
Plextor Plex-Writer PX48/24/48A
Sony Floppy Disc Drive W000t!
This Floppy drive really rocks it has done a nice 7 years of trustfull service!

and yeah the new setup will replace the X2 4400+ CrossFire Setup, since I want to do 3D Modelling & Flight Sims on it, CrossFire is very powerfull i know but I can sell it and use that money for something I can bennefit with my new goals, so hey! why not :)

The X1950XT AGP Turbo should get the job done right for the Dual OpteronDC 280 system.

ATI RV630's (X2600) late - again. It's launch is planned for end of may and it will enter production in June. That means that Nvidia GF8600 is going to have no competition for at least two months.

http://www.itx.ba/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=374&Itemid=1

heh looks like ATi is facing the same problem as 3dfx did with the Voodoo 5 6000 and 3dfx Rampage 2000 cards.

wrote on 27.03.07 at 07:41:36:

ATI RV630's (X2600) late - again. It's launch is planned for end of may and it will enter production in June. That means that Nvidia GF8600 is going to have no competition for at least two months. http://www.itx.ba/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=374&Itemid=1

Damn >:( well more time to compile money for tha card. X2600Xt will beat GF8600GT for sure 8)

I'm really waiting "n-gage 2" = compination of quality finnish cell phone from NOKIA and best graphics for cell phones from ATi
http://www.techshout.com/mobile-phones/2006/06/ati-nokia-collaborate-for-offering-ultimate-mobile-multimedia-experiences/
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/05/04/ati_nokia_multimedia_deal/

btw which cell phone brand's mobile phone do you carry

I have Nokia 3100 small and easy to use

wrote on 28.03.07 at 10:37:38:

btw which cell phone brand's mobile phone do you carry I have Nokia 3100 small and easy to use

Well, the cheapest I could find after the pension of my Siemens S55 - Nokia 1112; it's a phone and nothing more. And it works! It's just like Intel integrated graphics!  ;D

Wasn't it today when R600 should have been released, was it??
put where is it ???
maybe they released it in evening in some kinda social occasion

edit:
this 2+1 Crossfire with 3 X2900XTX would be super machine of all time  8) would it be possible if attach 2+1 Crossfire system one of those ageia physics card. 4 graphic card at one time  8)

Water cooled r600
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4866

heh the Ageia Physics P1 would be like doing nothing since an ATi R580 VPU has like up to 7 times the physical rendering power than the Ageia Physics P1and an ATi R600 would be like 14 to maybe 18 P1's, so by adding an extra P1 via the legacy PCI32bit slow would end up as a pointless as usless effect, I would rather ad a nice PC Flashed 3dfx Voodoo 5 5500 PCI Macintosh instead ;)

here some good pics of a X2900XTX OEM card also with out the cooler!!!


http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/4fe986dcd47ba6afe2517393f36002ac.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/46ec98ff181d5966f840fdd78af7885a.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/451d1fe051f9934b0c5c709f5cf75d0a.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/a33172abda330d541b367d650cbf3033.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/f26ed96969bbedb2c9ba77635bdfffc0.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/7b5e12008c0d8d49c52620f6b22af8a2.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/46bd68a2022dfba1325135909cada7f1.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/5a3572f8a328047f6987f09639b7596f.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/d4b9017308be04d72bfebeda1e31444c.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/90a674c87b042c71fc02f43ec173224e.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/0601ef24713c778f8869234c6efc3a1f.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/e5ebb7d370ab965b4b312a46d11573d9.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/0abe389533528481121b9cac1dda0f4f.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/50ef2ea92c5d66e57ed15d278c955c7e.jpg

Damn, this thing is so stylish ;D

When are the retail ones gonna be released finally??
Next month? I can't wait any longer :'(

end of April I think heh this card is gonna scare the lights out of many gamers heh.

LOL not to mention many power supplies as well.   :P

heh it's not that bad as many think lol, the X2900 XT 512MB 512Bit GDDR3 model will only take 200 watts while the retail XTX model will do 240 watts Smiley

An Ultra High End gamer wouldn't mind about the power, all he she or it wants is the most powerfull and fastest 3D rendering on his, hers or it's screen Wink

here the info about the power consumptions of the cards Smiley
http://www.fx57.net/?p=574

not that bad as it seems do keep in mind the X2900 XTX consists of 721 Million Transistors with 1024 MB 512Bit GDDR4 @ 2.2 Ghz aka 1.1Ghz physical

UPDATE!!!!
Well here she is ladies & gentlemen :)

ATi Radeon HD 2900 XT 512bit 512MB GDDR3!
http://www.dailytech.com/ATI+Radeon+HD+290...article7043.htm

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/4534_R600_1.jpg

Now this looks damn cool! :ubermicro:
http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/4535_R600_2.jpg

"Onto the benchmarks. The tests were conducted on an Intel D975XBX2 BadAxe2, Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6700 and 2x1GB DDR2-800 MHz. The operating system on the test system was Windows XP, with a fresh install before benchmarking each card. Testing of the AMD ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT was performed using the 8.361 Catalyst RC4 drivers, while the GeForce 8800 GTS used ForceWare 158.19 drivers. "

heh do keep in mind the drivers used for the 2900 XT are old beta drivers! While the ones from the GeForce 8800GTS are perfect WHQL drivers, so the performance wil only get better once the drivers get renewed for the HD 2900 XT cards. ;)

so here some benches, a shame that 1280 x 1024 x 32 was used 1560 x 1600 x32 would of been a far better reso just to get the 512Bit memory bus utilized morely heh.

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6595/r600benchessr4.jpg

Not bad for beta drivers eh?

Looks allright so far -> But I want the xtx 8)
Hopefully it'll be released soon.

I ordered myself a new e4400 + board + 2GB RAM today, I just couldn't wait :D

So far, my X1800XT has to do the job, till the new beast is released (I love the wordplay ;D )...

KOOOOOL! 8)

Hm, these Results are okay (apart from the Power consumption).

With the 65nm refresh later this year, I think these will become very nice parts that will excel nicely in DX10 (although I'll never get to see that, Win2000 SP4 will remain my last MicroSoft OS) :)

yeah well I'm still happy with my X1900 XTX + X1950 XTX CrossFire Editon CrossFire setup:
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/16845-2/DSC01820.JPG http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/16927-2/DSC01845.JPG http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/16904-2/3dfx+SLI+_amp_+ATi+CF+combined_.jpg http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/17675-2/CF+_+Omega+7_01.jpg

here the max FSAA x14 Setting this was before I put in the V5PCIMac hehe
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/16820-2/X1900XTX-X1950XTX+CFE+setup.jpg

It does everything I want it too and really C&C 3 Tiberium Wars Kane Edition & FSX @ 1440 x 900 x32 with FSAA x14 AF x16HQ + Adaptive AA @ Quallity mode + max HDR as FarCry but then without the HDR since FarCry 1.33 has no HDR, these games really shine and they run very fluid on it :)
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/19329-2/C_amp_C3Takeoff.jpg http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/16817-2/FSX+1440+x+900+x32+MAX+settings+_+MAX+FSAA+_+HDR+_+MAX+AF.jpg http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/19553-2/FarCry0001.jpg

The bluryness in C&C3 is the heat of the exhausts of the aircraft as other vehicles & buildings as the heat from the earth's surface, this technique comes to life with 3dfx's Motion Blur! So cool that 3dfx tech is being utilized in the games of today heh! even Soft Shadows, Soft Reflections as Field Of Depth are being utilized as well ;D so cool. 8)

And heh DX10 may seem nice but not needed for now since games like Crysis will support DX9.0c as well and that API can still give breath taking effects on this CF setup :)

But I would go for 2 HD 2900XT cards since the 1GB model would use more power and the difference qua speed might not be so big afterall, since the reso I use is 1440 x 900 x32 a CF setup of 2 1GB cards might be overkill for the reso I need it for.

that with max settings + FSAA x24 AF x16HQ + max HDR which would make Flight Sim X run fluid in DX10 mode but this is a future concern.

once Vista get's 100% reliable like 2000 Pro as XP pro are now we are about around December or Januari 2008 that is when I will strike for 2 HD 2900 based cards they will be alot cheaper and I'll still have enough speed for what I need them for ;)

And yes Win2K Pro + Rollup1 for SP4 is my main OS as well for the X800XT PE setup and XP pro + SP2 for the CF setup , as the laptop and Win2K3 Server Edition will be installed on my upcomming Dual AthlonMP 2200+ server 8)

BTW here's more new on how the HD 2900XT OC's it seems to a great OCer heh! 2000Mhz DDR is not a problem and the performance gains aren't bad at all!
http://www.dailytech.com/Overclocking+the+R600/article7044.htm

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3838/hd2900xtocbenchesmw0.jpg

And that for a card under the 399 US dollar mark not bad I must say though it will be about 440 euro's in the EU :)

Oh Anotherthing the dutch Computer store allready has a HD 2900 XT in thier sale assortiment  heh!
EUR 380,00
http://www.sallandautomatisering.nl/files/32837.jpg
http://www.sallandautomatisering.nl/?pid=34021

Only thing is how the heck do they know when it really will hit the market? Since nobody really has  aprecise launch date, some say end of April others say mid of May.
Silly marketing sometimes.

One thing is true it's not that expensive at all really @ least that's a great advantage 8)

Btw got some new pics of AMD's ATi Radeon HD2900XT 512MB GDDR3 card, so here they are! 8)

ATi Radeon HD 2900 XT 512Bit 512MB GDDR3 :)
http://news.mydrivers.com/img/20070427/04213437.jpg
http://news.mydrivers.com/img/20070427/04215331.jpg
http://news.mydrivers.com/img/20070427/04221653.jpg

Won't take long my friends, it won't take long anymore.

Hi,
what do you know about Ati X1950 Pro Agp's problems?
I've found in sapphire's forum a lot of people that accuse the same instability...

hmm never heard about problesm with that card, since all the lads I know who have it have a VIA chipset or an AMD chipset but to be honest it shouldn't really matter what chipset you have ! :)

The motherboard must have a good AGP 3.0 slot and the card isn't reverse compatible to AGP x4 mode, so maybe the lads with AGP 4 mobo's have the biggest troubles, chipsets like the AMD AM760MPX for instance have troubles with AGP x8 boards beyond 9800XT, the 9800XT is the latest supported ATi card which uses the ATi R360 VPU.

The GeForce 5900 Ultra with the NV35 GPU is the latest supported stable nvidia card for the AMD AM760MPX.
Dunno bout 5950Ultra since that uses a different bios as GPU which is a NV38 :)

Anyways to get back to the problems what kind of problems are that actually?

wrote on 27.04.07 at 22:58:20:

Hi, what do you know about Ati X1950 Pro Agp's problems? I've found in sapphire's forum a lot of people that accuse the same instability...

I heard lot's about it. Many people have problems with overheating (with both the AGP and PCIe version) ...strangly enough. The normal Sapphire X1950Pro runs fine though (have tested 2 cards).

The 'problem' with the X1950 Pro are the voltage regulators. They get quite hot. If you install a Zalman cooler on the card, the card will crash after a while (black screen). This is because those coolers can't cool the voltage regulators. The original X1950Pro heatsink/fan from Sapphire does cool the voltage regulators and won't cause any trouble.

This image shows a Zalman cooler with additional cooling on the voltage regulators. They shouldn't have problems.

Second problem is (which many cards have, even 3dfx cards but since they can survive lot's of heat they won't crash) dust. Fans get dirty because of dust and cards like the X1950 Pro with cooling like this (click!) get dirty faster. The dust will become stuck inside the heatsink and blocks any airflow. The temperature will increase because of the lack of airflow. When this happens the card can easily exceeds 100C with the fan blowing at 100% of the speed.

By the way: Other cards with this fandesign will have the same problems. They get dirty inside. Especially in a smoker's room :X.

Seems also the Bridge Chip on the X1950 AGP series gets extremely hot.

Some people had to glue old Coolers onto it to get the Card run stable.

He he he,
I have a Corsair HS620 psu in my pc and someone in Sapphire forum have had the courage to say that the problem is caused by the psu...
http://www.sapphiretech.com/en/forums/showthread.php?t=12847
See the other threads too ::)
Thanks my friends,
Tom.

wrote on 28.04.07 at 13:09:46:

Seems also the Bridge Chip on the X1950 AGP series gets extremely hot. Some people had to glue old Coolers onto it to get the Card run stable.

How hot is 'extremely' hot? The bridge on X800-based cards can get hot too. In my opinion it's just "a bit" hot while other people would say "extremely hot" (as since they can't put their finger on it for a few secs. without burning :P)

Those who say 'extremely hot' will probably install cooling but maybe it won't be the solution for the problem. After all those things can handle such heat pretty well. :)

As it solved the instability for many (not all), it is a comfirmed part of the Problem (and therefor simply too hot, regardless of actual temperature)

Anything on a modern retail Hardware becoming too hot to touch is wrong and indicating a significantly reduced lifetime.

The more modern the architecture gets, the less heat it generally can stand over prolonged times - unless it is hardened by modern materials, which however is something completely uncommon in price-driven mass markets.

I'll try too provide a better cooling for incriminate elements ;)

Got more leaked pics which I got from the Dutch GoT ATi news discussion topic part 55 :)

3DM 05 @ 1024 x 768
http://www.chiphell.com/attachments/month_0704/20070428_1c8110ce17d056f3d56a4qNhGWOKitQc.jpg

3DM 05 @ 1280 x 1024
http://www.chiphell.com/attachments/month_0704/20070428_ad2b8ea486c0bd5382d50MzBzMonS3vZ.jpg

3DM 05 @ 1280 x 1024 & FSAA x4 AF x8
http://www.chiphell.com/attachments/month_0704/20070428_8f56ff8ea85706f3ef87VwMoywzN1HmG.jpg

here some pics of the AMD Ati Radeon HD 2900XT in live action :)
http://www.quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/5177HD2900%20a.jpg http://www.quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/9604HD2900%20b.jpg

Here the ATi Catalyst Overclock panel :)
http://www.quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/8250HD2900%20c.jpg

Here some layout scemes of the HD2400 aka RV610, HD2600 aka RV630 and the HD2900 aka R600 series:

HD 2400:
http://www.quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/4293hd2400xl4.jpg

HD 2600:
http://www.quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/8578hd2600wg2.jpg

HD 2900:
http://www.quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/341120070428_deff9681f706dcab9a16HwlraKhteBqZ.jpg

Okay got some far better pics!! damn this card is sweet too!

here's the HD 2900XT compared between a GeForce 8800GTS 640 as a 8800GTX 768 qua lengths :)
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/23255-1/Russian+Red.jpg

The card it's self in it's full size glory!
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/23252-1/Helse_+HD+2900XT.jpg

and the Launch partners har har har!
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/23248-2/ati+partners.jpg

and here tons of official info of this beauty!
http://www.hisdigital.com/html/product_ov.php?id=304&view=yes

Any news about X2600 ??
I heard that best RV630 is named Radeon HD X2600XT just like Radeon HD X2900XT
so does that means that card with this special HD chip get named HD?

wrote on 03.05.07 at 21:55:59:

Any news about X2600 ?? I heard that best RV630 is named Radeon HD X2600XT just like Radeon HD X2900XT so does that means that card with this special HD chip get named HD?

well the HD 2600XT will also be made in an AGP x8 model and it's about 15% overall faster than the X1950 XTX isn't this cool! thereby crushing the nVidia GeForce 8600GTS with ease :)

The only bad spot of it all :

This Thread started 25 Nov, is now 17 (!) Pages long [ biggest sustained Spam Thread record in this Forum history ], and still no single Card to buy anywhere...

If the new hardware runs at the insane Power levels indicated so far and doesn't give absolutely stomping performance for it, AMD is in serious Problems. There are already comparisons ATI > 3dfx being feared (although I hope that's a tad too early)

I think that ATI/AMD just needed to release this card so they would have something to stand up to the power of the Geforce. :)

They did succeed in that so it seems, now they have some more time to perfect the architecture.

They did that before, release a card that actually needed a 2nd go at the core and still outperform nVidia.

Look at the 9700pro/9800pro same idea, only they weren't getting as hot ofcourse.

I think that the R600+ or whatever it will be called, will be a good makeover of the R600, with lesser heat and more power.

And truth be said, people that shell out 500+ euros for a videocard are generally not the kind of people that worry about the electrical bill. :)

And case cooling has become more and more efficient, so the heat the card generates can be dealt with accordingly as well.

And ATI going the way of the emperor?? No, I don't see that happening. ATI may have lost market share, but loads of people know the R600 is coming and are waiting for it so they can buy one, so ATI will get marketshare back, I have no doubt about that.

I seem to recall that the R600 will be produced on 65nm, and will produce less heat and use less power then was 1st thought, cause the original design was based on 80nm core I think.

wrote on 03.05.07 at 23:17:38:

well the HD 2600XT will also be made in an AGP x8 model and it's about 15% overall faster than the X1950 XTX isn't this cool! thereby crushing the nVidia GeForce 8600GTS with ease :)

Crikey ;D thats wonderful!
In one of the finnish HW forums they said that gf8600 is completely flop!, maybe HD X2600XT competes with GF8800gts 320Mb :D, but over 50% cheaper. I've heard that x2600 will be launch @ june. so is this the strategy from ATI-AMD to make as many card as they can before launch? last year at august AMD couldn't produce enough X2 processor to every one because AMD didn't expect that huge popularity. so ATI-AMD want to avoid that. I think

Well, it is "a bit" different.

AMD simply could not produce sufficient Processors for the channel market after fullfilling contracts with Dell.

They simply did not have the capacity.

After intel released the Core 2 Duo, AMD had to slash prices in order to stay competitive - again, they could not deliver sufficient CPUs.

What we currently see is not a "strategy", it is a survival fight. Every single day the company is driving Millions in operative losses. So much, that they recently had to start looking into crisis financing.

The ATI section right now cant even deliver. If they had the chance, they would have immediately filled the channels with the released R600 in order to get profitable again - they could not do it.

Talking from the heads of shareholders or businessmen, the last 12 month belong to the worst AMD has ever seen in its company history - and thats certainly not strategy...

---
In the CPU world, AMD is looking at even worse numbers now... Even if the K10 was to be released tomorrow, if would be an expensive Server CPU, with a very limited Server market. What they need .today. is the Desktop Version to compete against the Core 2 Duo. According to their own Roadmap, this will not happen until early 2008 - which is nothing but a full-blown desaster, unless they can tweak even more performance out of the existing design in a hurry.... and actually deliver it in numbers.

HD 2400 is weird  :D
http://www.fudzilla.com/images/stories/2007/May/graphics/radeon_hd2400.jpg

this reminds me from L-shaped V4

yeah but the "L' sahpe has been turned 180 degrees heh!

Well the reason why it looks like this is for the Internal CrossFire connectors so that AMD/ATi didn't have to change that feature's design ;)

wrote on 05.05.07 at 15:41:34:

yeah but the "L' sahpe has been turned 180 degrees heh! Well the reason why it looks like this is for the Internal CrossFire connectors so that AMD/ATi didn't have to change that feature's design ;)

And an empty space for a chip. Probably usable for extended TV functions :).

@ MrFrossy

Yeah probably :)

@ Everyone

Here a nice pic of the MSI GeForce 8800 Ultra and the MSI Radeon HD2900XT and a nice comparrison also heh!
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2103/msi2900xt01br0.jpg

The HS2900XT without the cooler :)
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/6170/msi2900xt16qw5.jpg

And some nice pics of Ruby man she's hot !
http://www.quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/7093Ruby%201.jpg http://www.quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/9464Ruby%202.jpg

Here a new slide of the layout structure of the R600 VPU :)
http://www.quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/3998R600%20layoutinfo.jpg

ATi Radeon HD 2900XT is listed on a finnish internet HW store! delivering time was 1-2weeks and costs 395.10€

It's finally here  8)

edit: argh, now it says that delivering time is "unknow" :(

By latest news R6xx series should be released today

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gerald.marley/index.htm

With the preliminary Drivers, things don't look good for ATI.

Almost double the power consumption yet still a bit slower than the 8800.
One can only hope later Drivers will improve performance and newer Steppings and/or 65nm bring the power consumption back to acceptable limits.

that's really strange, I seem to recall there were several previews on the net which stated that the 2900XT could outperform the 8800GTX by a bit, and the 8800GTS by a wide margin.

Or are those fake now??

Well, I guess so...

Many pre-previews used a calculator and theoretic performance to estimate the final result... And were wrong by quite a margin.

As it looks now, we have a Midrange Part that just manages to outperform the 8800GTS, yet consumes ~60W more power, setting a new world record in power consumption per GPU.
Its high-end brother is likely not to be seen anytime soon, as it's now obvious that they simply can't clock it high enough to compete with a 8800GTX without exceeding absolutely ludicrous power levels.

To me the R600 uses far to much power also the reason I'm leaving it aside, as for now in DX9.0c as OpenGL 2.0 apps my allready exsisting X1900 XTX + X1950 XTX CrossFire Setup is powerfull enough and yeaps the out come of the tests was rather dissapointing in a way,ofcourse the card an run core/mem 1Ghz but it would then use far too much power compared what it would use @ 740/ 1650 Mhz, also a reason why AMD/ATi give the HD 2900 XT those speeds.

The card it's self was aimed at the 8800 GTS series as which in most cases the HD 2900 XT defeats the 8800 GTS cards qua overall performance, but when in CrossFire it even defeats SLI GTX as Ultra setups,  why the card performs so bad is that it's 320 shaders aren't running fast enough and mostly it all comes to poor driver optimization which can only improve over the months.

Do keep in mind that the R600 is rather new orsay just released and that the G80 exsists for about a good 7 months which drivers are far more worked out as stable as that of the new ATi competitor many people don't even think about this part which does play a very important role.

The XTX model will be getting the smaller R650 VPU which is baked on a 0,65 micron process which uses alot les power than the 0,80 micron R600.

RV630 has 390M transistors @ 65nm, it performs the same that of a  X1950GT/Pro and only uses 45W. A R580 has 384M transistors @ 90nm which uses about 130W but is a little faster. Dus stroomverbruik per transistor is enorm omlaag gegaan, terwijl de performance per watt flink omhoog is gegaan. The performance per watt shall be alot greater than that of the R580 as the energey used per transistor has decreased quite alot compared to that of the R580 as well, so a HD 2900 XTX with an AMD ATi R650 @ 65nm should deliver alot more performance per watt thereby getting a much higher core speed than the R600 and hereby using alot less power, I suppose that this card should shake the place a little more.

Here another nice review from Toms Hardware Guide :)
Tom's Hardware Guide's HD 2900 XT Review

They see it alot more possitive to be honest and if you would think of the architecture which is more future based than that of the G80 it does make sense in a way that is:

"At $400 for the version we have in the lab, it is a good price as it has more to offer than the GeForce 8800GTS.

Overall, HD2900XT is more forward looking than GeForce 8800 and it should be; it took an extra six months getting it to market. "

Anyways like I mentioned before :) Drivers do Miracles :)
http://www.computerbase.de/news/treiber/gr...eibervergleich/
http://home.planet.nl/~lind1469/x2900xtx.jpg

Here a nice OC done with a Sapphire HD 2900XT :) Nice scores too which was achieved with stock cooling 8)
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=144247

3D Mark 2001SE : 62863
3D Mark 03 : 42872
3D Mark 05 : 20158
3D Mark 06 : 13742

Here the card and how it was setup for the OC test runs:

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/1776/59397734mk4.jpg
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/5250/53198442hi2.jpg

and if you want reviews where here's a whole bunch I found a few days ago :)


http://www.guildwarsarena.net/ati/atitopic-hd2900.jpg
http://www.guildwarsarena.net/ati/hd2900xt.jpg
Anandtech
Beyond3D
Bjorn3D
Chile  Hardware
Computer Base.De
Cubic
Digit Life
Driver Heaven
Extreme Tech
Architecture Analysis
Firing Squad
Guru3D
Hardware Info
Hardware Secrets
Hexus
HardOCP
Hot Hardware
Legit Reviews
OC Workbench
PC Perspective
PC Presence
T-Break
Tech Power Up
The Inquirer
The Tech Report
Tom's Hardware
Tweakers.net
Tweak Town
VR-Zone

It's just that the R600 is so new it still has to get optimized properly for the applications out there ,once the people start using it then AMD/ATi can start fixing problems like all other generations ;)

also found a nice article about the minimum fps the HD 2900XT does compared to the X1950 XTX and the 8800 GTX :)

okay 3 totally different classes as GPU's/VPU's but just to get the idea how efficient the 512Bit memory bus really can be, take a look at this nice article 8)
http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1100/11/...roes/index.html

The 8800 GTX looks like a bigger frame dropper than the 2900 XT if you compare the frame drops when FSAA + AF is enabled

here a nice graph on how powerfull the Vertexshader processing really is, quite amazing really:
http://media.bestofmicro.com/2/U/15654/original/016.gif

The reason why the gap is so big is that because AMD chose for 5 Way Scalar Madds instead of a Vec4 + Scalar which the previous DX9 series used :)

So for people that like doing CAD as 3d Modelling the R600 is deffintely TeH VPU for you, since Vertexshader processing take a very big deal in that area as up comming OpenGL 2.1 applications.

Here some reviews about the image quallity of the new CFAA modes as settings :)

ATI 8x + Wide Tent
http://www.dinoxpc.com/Tests/articoli/articolo/video_jetway_hd2900xt_images/aa8x+wt.jpg

nVidia 16xQ
http://www.dinoxpc.com/Tests/articoli/articolo/video_jetway_hd2900xt_images/AA16xQ_pic_785472_25.jpg

about the EATM part that can be found in the review:
http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2007q2/radeon-hd-2900xt/index.x?pg=8

As the advantages as the disadvantages of CFAA are clearly explained here as well:
http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2007q2/radeon-hd-2900xt/index.x?pg=6

Well there has been another good driver update, drivers 8.38 really improve the HD 2900XT's performance quite a bit!:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpo...p;postcount=175

with ATi Catalyst 8.37 the following was achieved:
3dmark 2006: 12086 Marks
Dark Messiah: 63 FPS
http://quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/93783dm06%20837.jpg http://quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/8700DM837.jpg


With ATi Catalyst 8.38 the improved following was achieved 8)
3dmark2006: 12530 Marks
Dark Messiah: 78 FPS
http://quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/74123dm06%20838.jpg http://quickload.hostingvision.com/thumbs/7440DM838.jpg

somewhere on this chinese site the 8.38 drivers tests were found :)
http://chiphell.com/viewthread.php?tid=394...tra=&page=3

So as you can see the hardware is perfect and while the drivers keep on getting better so will the total performance of the hardware ;)

sounds sweet to me.

By the time the next gen of ATI will be released, the R700 or something, I'll probably be buying the X2900XTX 1GB. LOL

I always stay 1 generation behind, or try to. :) bought my X1950XT last christmas. it'll last me for quite some time, I'm sure.

Sometimes I skip a generation, as the card before this one was an x800xl.

Anyways, driver optimisations will show whether the R600 has what it takes to beat the 8800GTX, and I think it does, it is already pretty close, with non tweaked drivers, sooooo....

yeaps and it will only get better :) anyways i will leave it aside since my CrossFire setup give me enough fun as for now I need a new mobo since my bios chip has died lol ::)

Oh well the X800XT PE will keep me occupied for a moment untill I get a replacement board or bios chip for this problem :-X  8)

well, I'm 3 generations behind with my R9800pro 128Mb, so I think it is time to upgrade. I'll buy Hd 2600 XT as soon as possible.

so these Hd 2600 XTs don't have external power connector, that is good thing, no need to have powerful PSU to have crossfire.

yeaps the HD 2600XT will also only slurp 45 watts :) which is very nice for a 380 million transistored chip @ 65nm 8) The RV630 is going to be a success by the looks of this.

wrote on 15.05.07 at 15:55:01:

yeaps the HD 2600XT will also only slurp 45 watts :) which is very nice for a 380 million transistored chip @ 65nm 8) The RV630 is going to be a success by the looks of this.

yep, but ati-amd made a mistake bacause they only released HD2900Xt to stores. other cards seems to be released @ June.
I would buy HD 2900 XT if I would have a better mobo+PSU+enough money :)

wrote on 15.05.07 at 14:10:00:

The card it's self was aimed at the 8800 GTS series as which in most cases the HD 2900 XT defeats the 8800 GTS cards qua overall performance...

The card was aimed @ the top - as a GF 8800 Ultra rival, but it surpasses only the mid-ranged & 80euros cheaper GTS by a margin. It's a good thing that AMD realized this and lowered the price on it's flagship model.


wrote on 15.05.07 at 14:10:00:

So as you can see the hardware is perfect and while the drivers keep on getting better so will the total performance of the hardware ;)

You do have a point there - I sure hope that new drivers and DX10 apps are going to add a shine to the new R600, because the way it is now - it's nothing special. I am, for example, dissapointed... :(

Quote from fudzila:

"Radeon HD 2900XT leaves us wit a bitter taste. It will certainly win a lot of benchmarks versus 8800 GTS but bare in mind that 8800 GTS 320 MB is just slightly slower than the 640 MB version and is available today for 256 € including the shipping costs.

This is almost €150 difference to start with. Geforce 8800 GTX is clearly faster in every single test and can be purchased for about €100 more. It is not that much money compared to what you would get, a clear winner and performance increase. Even bigger issue is that an overclocked 8800 GTS 320 MB can easily match Radeon HD 2900XT in many cases and costs only €320 again some €80 cheaper. "

Source: http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=975&Itemid=40&limit=1&limitstart=3

I hope the mid-range cards ara going to have more bang for the buck. Well... Until then  8)

I find the power leakage & use numbers disturbing- As someone who pays ever escalating energy bills... what are part uses for power is a factor in purchasing.

Yes it does make a difference, the daily machine I use at home is now a VIA Edan ITX and I see the difference in the electric bills. At full draw the unit only pulls 28 watts tops.

The "mid-range" parts from ATI look hopefull, the 2900 looks like a rather desperate release move.

I agree Gary and good to see you back again mate ;)

Well I'm stepping away from the HD 2900 XT since it's CFAA modes make the image quallity also look worse than on the half year old G80, really this is no joke.

As the power it drains I was like mkaay :-X even in idle mode my CF setup drains less so then I was like no way hozay haha

3dfx Interactive had the same problem only thing that was about 7 years ago...
When I turn of FSAA x4 as x8 on the Voodoo 5 6000 you get the same performance drops so strange that ATi hardware of 2007 have the same problem, without FSAA the 6000 is very fast so is the HD 2900XT.

with the 6000 this was a hardware issue let's hope that this isn't the issue for the HD 2900XT...

So here is what I think of the whole situation:

The R600 VPU may have been better if it used more ram or better drivers because releasing a card while there are only alpha as betadrivers which support it only by half isn't really the right way to release a class A product this also leads to bad marketing even that it is so cheap.

The image quallity tests show clearly that the G80 gives a sharper image than that of the R600:
http://tertsi.users.daug.net/temp/R600/iq/coj_nvidia_vs_ati.html

[hover with your mouse cursor on the pic to see the ATi shot]

Since the R600 uses more blur thereby decrease the IQ when CFAA is enabled, the MSAA of the G80 gives a much clearer as sharper image quallity than the CFAA of the R600 cards, Wide Tent versus Narrowtent well narrow tent also gives a bsharper image while wide tent gives smoother FSAA only leaving lots of blur thereby leaving an overblured picture.

Lost Planet on ATi Radeon HD2900 XT:
http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/505/ati_snow_thumb.jpg

Lost Planet on nVidia GeForce 8800 GTX:
http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/505/nvidia_snow_thumb.jpg

The G80 uses Rotated Grid Multi Sample Full Scene Anti-Alliasing the way 3dfx did 7 years back but then with the help of advanced shaders to fill in the perfromance gaps.

The R600 uses CFAA for smoother way of FSAA but with lot's of performance loss, why this happens is still questioned as it shouldn't really make such a large difference performance wise, could this be a flaw in the VPU's design or should this be seen software wise?
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/r600-architecture.html

"Quality review that's for sure. but ATI needs to do something about the significant performance loss when turning up AA.."

For now I would advise the people to wait month until the drivers get better and that the research of this new VPU has more details on why it behaves so strange when FSAA is utilised and that the image quallity has a more blurred effect.

For the lads that have a G80 or a R580 CF setup as a single R580 I'd say keep what you have!!

The G80 still is the best GPU out there and in most tests it's untoutched since it has been around for half a year it's drivers are also morely bugfree.

Well got more about that CFAA and how you should see it what it has as a great advantage, they used the game The Elder ScrolsIV: Oblivion
http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2007q2/r...xt/index.x?pg=6


Quote:

Frankly, I was all set not to like CFAA's tent filters when I first heard about them. They make things blurry, don't involve clever tricks like Nvidia's coverage sampling, and hey, Quincunx sucked. But here's the thing: I really like them. It's hard to argue with results, and CFAA's tent filters do some important things well. Have look at this example shot from Oblivion. GeForce 8800 GTS CSAA 8X http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2007q2/radeon-hd-2900xt/oblivion-g80-csaa-16x.png GeForce 8800 GTS CSAA 16X http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2007q2/radeon-hd-2900xt/oblivion-g80-csaa-16x.png Radeon HD 2900 XT CFAA 8X - 4X MSAA + Wide tent http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2007q2/radeon-hd-2900xt/oblivion-r600-cfaa-8x.png This CFAA mode with 8 samples produces extremely clean edges and does an excellent job of resolving very fine geometry, like the tips of the spires on the cathedral. Even 16X CSAA can't match it. Also, have a look at the tree leaves in these shots. They use alpha transparency, and I don't have transparency AA enabled, so you see some jagged edges on the GeForce 8800. The wide tent filter's subtle blending takes care of these edges, even without transparency AA. You may not be convinced yet, and I don't blame you. CFAA's tent filters may not be for everyone. I would encourage you to try them, though, before writing them off. There is ample theoretical backing for the effectiveness of tent filters, and as with any AA method, much of their effectiveness must be seen in full motion in order to be properly appreciated. I prefer the 4X MSAA + wide tent filter to anything Nvidia offers, in spite of myself. I've found that it looks great on the 30" wide-screen LCD attached to my GPU test rig. The reduction in high-frequency pixel noise is a good thing on a sharp LCD display; it adds a certain solidity to objects that just.. works. Oblivion has never looked better on the PC than it does on the Radeon HD 2900 XT.

So actually it doesn't really matter, I mean nobody is forced to use the CFAA option it's just there as an optional setting, so hey afterall it isn't as bad as the most reviewers see it :) You don't have to make use of it if you don't like too right? ;)

It also depends on how you are planning to take use of it, and in that Oblivion test the Image quallity is actually the best on the AMD-ATi Radeon HD 2900 XT 8)

Found some nice phase-change OC test with the HD 2900XT:
http://www.nordichardware.com/Reviews/?pag...p;skrivelse=510

OMFG just look how they cool this thing !!! http://www.purepwnage.com/forums/style_emoticons/darksmilies/pp_smiley7.gif
http://www.overclockers.ru/images/news/2007/05/15/kinc_01.jpg

[humour]

A user opens his newly bought Radeon HD 2900 XT and reads the manual... ;)

"Please remember when fitting the card that the jet engine is attached to the front..." :o

OMG LOL! ;D

[/humour]

wrote on 17.05.07 at 22:22:40:

[humour] A user opens his newly bought Radeon HD 2900 XT and reads the manual... ;) "Please remember when fitting the card that the jet engine is attached to the front..." :o OMG LOL! ;D [/humour]

well the same goes for the GeForce 8800 Ultra ::) hahaha good joke Paul UBER LoL ;D ;D ;D

heh I guess we kinda uhm LoL'ed

There are already jokes about ATI soon offering a Flatrate bundle :

Retail Video Card + 600W PSU + 3 Games + free power usage for a year ;)

wrote on 18.05.07 at 00:07:06:

There are already jokes about ATI soon offering a Flatrate bundle : Retail Video Card + 600W PSU + 3 Games + free power usage for a year ;)

haha that one's pwnage FalconFly ;D where did you get that one from?

btw I think that Boeing & Airbus could be jelous since they could use these cards for their engines ::)

HD 2600XT Quad crossfire edition:
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/06/05/sapphire_shows_off_dual_hd_2600_xt/1

heh woah! looks damn freaky to have now quad R650 configs then I´m in ;)

well after June 28 I will show you a nice thing which I have obtained from an ATi Engineer who also took part of the R520 / R580 program.

a Prototype of the R580 aka X1900 XT / XTX cards.

it´s from week 45 year 2005 the core /mem speeds is rated @ 500Mhz / 1200Mhz it seemed to have a Rev.A1 VPU revision quite nice eh 8)

MAAAN! That's F00K1N AWESOME! :o

Can you imagine 4-screen gaming! ;D

L33TN355! 8)

Hmm...

Okay guys ;)

I'm seeing almost 20 Pages of ATI *cough* Spam now, the Thread will be deleted when it hits 20. Otherwise, it will never end...

Nothing against ATI but enough is enough - the R600 has been released and failed miserably, nothing more to see here.

Yeah, even I'll admit that it's getting a little out of hand! ::)

I like ATI and all, but this is a 3Dfx forum...not an ATI one! :P

wrote on 07.06.07 at 10:28:04:

Hmm... Okay guys ;) I'm seeing almost 20 Pages of ATI *cough* Spam now, the Thread will be deleted when it hits 20. Otherwise, it will never end... Nothing against ATI but enough is enough - the R600 has been released and failed miserably, nothing more to see here.

Spam sorry I don´t see this as spam to be honest since it is placed in the This & That Area don´t see a prob with that.

it´s something alot of us like besides 3dfx and hey it should be see as a pòssitive thing, okay there were some lost posts here true there but if people don´t like this thread nor ATi just keep awy from it since most 3dfx people use ATi cards I really never saw a threat in it anyways heh.

Whe my R580 Proto has arrived I will show it to ya´s since it´s something we never have seen upcolse heh.

but yeah the R600 was in somewhat of a way a failure but that´s just a driver problem it´s performance isn´t bad for what it costs only the power consumption that´s the major thing but then again a crossFire setup of 2 R600 beats every geforce out there so performance wise with multi VPU ATi sitill has that lead but with a single card it´s still green NV lol ::)

3dfx will always be our main thing here no doubts about that and yeah I am like many have though also ATI FanATic @ but it shouldn´t matter everyone has a second favourite thing here I believe ;)

Have fun everyone with what you have that´s the most important thing if it´s a Radeon, GeForce or Parhelia if it pleases ya Live on with yo! ;D 8)

Well, I'm all for bringing the Kyro back to market. hehehe  :P  

3DFX, love'd them unfortunately with Nvidia having all core assests, this isn't a possibility. Both ATI and Nvidia regardless of what company you prefer both have pretty solid products.

The core graphics chips that were Kyro are still being modified and created through Imagination tech, they are only being used for Mobile's though. I say bring them back to retail video!   hehehe   Ok won't happen either but.......

Anyway, that's my two cents worth.  Later.

Quote:

Spam sorry I don´t see this as spam to be honest since it is placed in the This & That Area don´t see a prob with that.

No Problem, I will give you a basic Analysis of the Thread by terms of Post Count and Post Anomalies (self-replies) :

X Self-Reply
= Post Count

Obi-Wan_Kenobi
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX===========================================================================================================================
gdonovan
X============================
FalconFly
==========================
mansfield
X========================
paulpsomiadis
X======================
elfuego
X===================
jandarsun8
==============
MrFossey
=======
ps47
====
Tweakstone
===
Max_R
===
ultima
===
exxe
==
gamma742
==

Out of 281 Total Postings by 14 Users, 123 were by you - a staggering 44%... Talking 17 times to yourself, repeatedly upto 3 times in a row...

Notice anything or is it just me ?

...and all this for a piece of Hardware, that
- shipped 6 months late
- consumes double the power of its competitor
- shipped with grossly incomplete Drivers and disabled or hotfixed features (Shader FSAA, no Hardware HD Decoding)
- failed to achieve adequate Performance

If that isn't "failure" by definition, I haven't seen any.
I'm still a happy AMD/ATI User, but I do see Reality when it shines through the window...

hmmm I would have to say OUCH!  ;D  

@ Falconfly

It depends on how you read my posts, since they were informative to the R600 as other launched ATi cards as comparrance tests results.

Since there were some off topic posts placed i don´t mind that I mean it happens everywhere, right ?

But if you want me to remove the unwanted stuff please tell me which ones and really I don´t mind. ;)


Do keep in mind that the Radeon HD 2900XT 512MB is aimed at the GeForce 8800GTS models:

wrote on 24.04.07 at 19:16:34:

....... http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6595/r600benchessr4.jpg Not bad for beta drivers eh?

And not against the 8800GTX as most do think about and that the drivers can only get better.

the HD 2900XT 1024MB is aimed at the GTX model as for the Ultra. that one will release soon and heh it won´t have such a delay as the R600 did you are totally right there.

Most of my posts were informative about the R600 so therefore so many some were defensive since there were many NV versus ATi posts in my topic again and pro NV posts shouldn.t be placed in an ATi topic the whole idea of it was to discuss the R600 and what lies beyond it but since there were quite alot of ATi uses I changed it to an ATi news & discussion topic which was a more sensable idea.

but spam noway hozay wrong there bud.
I didn´t post links from warez sites , I didn´t show pro ATi behavior against anti NV things and so on that would trigger flame wars, which isn´t the idea just posted news as news blogs of ATi´s new chip the R600 as comparences of it compared to that of the competitor the 8800 GTS just to compare the differences in i most tests the HD 2900XT is faster but indeewdly not worth the wait I totally agree the drivers are indeedly still crappy they should of been alot better than they are now, the architechture of the R600 does look nice 4c 64 Stream Processors + 512Bit 512MB GDDR3 but it doesn´t show it true prommissed power but for 340 euro´s it is a bang for the buck compared to the 8800GTS  qua price performance but nor performance per watt which is the main problem people face, but a High end gamers rather looks at the price performance factor where the HD 2900XT really succeeds.

but even I am skipping it since it sucks far too much power, my advice is skip this one and go for R650 which is baked on 65nm and will use less half the power flow than of the R600.

So it´s not as dark as many see it, read the reliable revies of users that have the card and about 14 people of the GoT dutch ATi forum have the HD 2900XT and they are very pleased of it´s performance for what you pay for it but they do relise when FSAA + AF + HDR is enabled the performance drop is pretty big but the minimal fps is higher than that of a GTS as a GTX in many cases so even with that it isn´t as bad as many reviews make it look like ;)

I heard it from people I know and trust which I rather believe than some strange reviewer.

But yeaps I agree the power consumption is very bad heh norries there.

But about your thing about Spam, sorry mate couldn´t find any spam posts okay there was some confusion on page 3 but that wasn´t the reason to close this place nor was it, since you mentioned that yourself on page 5 ;)


wrote on 30.01.07 at 20:10:55:

Sorry, but I see no reason to cancel this discussion that way. Opinions are there to be shared and naturally differ. No reason to lock anything. Everyone knows Obi likes ATI (so do I), and everyone knows that many others do not. Nothing to get exited about IMHO, that's plain normal (?) The only thing some may throw at others might be a bit of fanboy-ism, but that's not a crime (remember most of us were that way with 3dfx, many still are, so why not with ATI or NVidia ? ) ;)

Well, think about it what you want, but this Thread is gone if it gets one more Spam posting - my word stands as it is.

If people want Advertisement about any specific Card, they'll go look it up themselfes.

And because of that very reason, I will have to remove this Spam, otherwise anyone could - fully legitimate - open 20 Page "oh looky at this cool Stuff" Threads about any piece of Hardware they picked. And that's not what this Forum is for.

Summary from a current review :
- no reason to invest into a X2900XT CF setup
- draws significantly more power
- delivers 10% less performance than 8800GTS SLI
- existing Driver problems get worse in CF setups (16xFSAA fails)
- Noise levels : unacceptable

That card was originally targeted at the GTX and beyond - the only reason we're now seeing it priced near the GTS is the Result of the profound failure of that card to deliver what it was intended to.

And to you quoting me :
That was from 30 Jan (!)...
Where this Thread went in the meantime I demonstrated to you in my last posting - enough said.

I've been Moderator and Admin for a very long time, trust me that I can tell Spam when I see it. That's my job.

wrote on 09.06.07 at 22:54:50:

Well, think about it what you want, but this Thread is gone if it gets one more Spam posting - my word stands as it is. If people want Advertisement about any specific Card, they'll go look it up themselfes. And because of that very reason, I will have to remove this Spam, otherwise anyone could - fully legitimate - open 20 Page "oh looky at this cool Stuff" Threads about any piece of Hardware they picked. And that's not what this Forum is for. Summary from a current review : - no reason to invest into a X2900XT CF setup - draws significantly more power - delivers 10% less performance than 8800GTS SLI - existing Driver problems get worse in CF setups (16xFSAA fails) - Noise levels : unacceptable That card was originally targeted at the GTX and beyond - the only reason we're now seeing it priced near the GTS is the Result of the profound failure of that card to deliver what it was intended to. And to you quoting me : That was from 30 Jan (!)... Where this Thread went in the meantime I demonstrated to you in my last posting - enough said. I've been Moderator and Admin for a very long time, trust me that I can tell Spam when I see it. That's my job.

heh well spam is something totally different to your germanic rules than the dutch ones I´m used to then, it´s just pure info I posted and it was placed in the right place the This and That area which was created for non 3dfx stuff, all I posted was ifo on this long awaited chip and yeaps your facts you posted are tre the cooler creats a heck of a sound but for that as tweakers there are plenty optional coolers to resolve that problem, makers like Artic as Zalman have great sollutions to that.

But anyways how it comes to me is that when talking about a non 3dfx card even in the this and tha area it should be seen as spam, then I´m like what an easy way to crank of a topic.

sorry but it´s teh dutch hard truth, but  hey mate have it your simple way close this one because you just can´t accept a topic about a card of another vender such a shame it has to end this way , what a waiste.

A jedi never attacks all what he does evade or defend when possble otherwise he runs away.

lets kick this back on topic-I got my msi x1950pro agp today,but I just cant get it working in my epox8k5a2+,after installing the driver xp seems to be loading,but it either hangs after displaying desktop for a few seconds,goes BSOD (related to atidvag.dll) or just displays black screen..weird enough,the driver loaded correctly once and everything seemed to work (opengl/D3D),but after restart it was back to usual BSOD/black screen businness..tried catalyst 7.4 and 7.5 (will try some older ones later),latest chipset drivers from epox homepage and via homepage,disabling fastwrites in BIOS,installing only the display driver,still the same..right now is seems like kt333+x1950pro=no go.

any ideas?

Gratz PS47. Hope you can get it running soon, I've got the 1950 Pro 512 meg agp card as well and huge difference.

Hmmm Somethings to try. Check MSI's website or forums concerning the card. I had a Gigacube 9600 Pro (i know old but...) when I got the card it would not do any drivers that had come out after the drivers on the cd. At the time they were on Cat 4.9 or something. I had to contact Gigacube about it, they sent me a new bios update for the card and that was that.

Long shot, since most companies have that worked out but you never know.

The otherthing to worry about is a thermal pad on the back of card covering the back side of chipset. It feels like foam and looks like it shouldn't be there. That had fallen off a X1650 Pro card I had installed for someone and it caused the card to over heat. We ended up shipping that one back to Newegg.com for a replacement.

Just some thoughts, hope it helps.  

wrote on 11.06.07 at 13:28:18:

lets kick this back on topic-I got my msi x1950pro agp today,but I just cant get it working in my epox8k5a2+,after installing the driver xp seems to be loading,but it either hangs after displaying desktop for a few seconds,goes BSOD (related to atidvag.dll) or just displays black screen..weird enough,the driver loaded correctly once and everything seemed to work (opengl/D3D),but after restart it was back to usual BSOD/black screen businness..tried catalyst 7.4 and 7.5 (will try some older ones later),latest chipset drivers from epox homepage and via homepage,disabling fastwrites in BIOS,installing only the display driver,still the same..right now is seems like kt333+x1950pro=no go. any ideas?

hmm interesting.

how about an older omega driver like Omega Catalyst 7.01?
and install the card without the fast writes option, since I did have similar things with my EP-8K5A2+ with the X800XT PE AGP but on the ASUS A7V333-R all went fine, maybe because of the bios or the way ASUS make their mobo´s just better for late AGP x8 VGA cards?

It also can be the ATi Railto chip which is making AGP x4 function impossible, since the X800XT PE does not have one of those.

My GeForce 7600GT AGP from XFX did have similar problems on my 8K5A2+ as A7V333-R mobo´s

well the card is marked agp4x/8x compatible so in theory agp4x slot should not be a problem.this seems like a software compatibility problem,as I said,for one time,the card somehow worked,and it worked fine,I was just not able to repeat that state again.I will check on older catalysts as soon as my working shifts are over-that would be this friday.

fastwrites off+driver reinstall was the first thing I tried,no success.

shortly said,the driver(s) behave very weirdly,almost randomly..

Well for one thing, I'd have to agree with Falcon on some of this, because of the amount of pages and pictures throughout this thread, it's taking a long time load. Maybe create a two new threads, one specifically for trouble shooting and the other for strictly info. Just a sugestion. Everyone here should know I like ATI but yeah, enough is enough. Trying to suggest something to ps47 to help and it's taking 10 minutes to load just kind of makes me go grrrrrr you know?

Anyway, I'd try new drivers also check to make sure the heatsink and fan are sitting correctly on the thing. I bought the Sapphire X1950 pro when it was first released in AGP form over in the us and there are a number of post saying that it wasn't being cooled right which caused some of the issues your describing. That heatsink and fan weren't always sitting on the GPU right. Being that it's MSI and they have a pretty decent product normally you could have been the 1% that something's not right there. Who knows. Just giving a suggestion to look at though.

Anyway good luck man. If worst case, get it replaced and see if it continues.

heh well this thrread has had it´s ups and downs true but about the card I´d say take an ASUS A7V333-R mobo or another mobo just see if it will do better.

@ ps47

If you have more KT333 mobo´s laying around that is hehe, when the HD 2600XT AGP hits the market I am willing to test it on my KT333 mobo just to be sure of things as the EPoX EP-8K5A2+ as the ASUS A7M266-D with AMD  AM760MPX chipset which I bought from Falconfly, just to see if there might be a change just because of different motherboard design.

BTW got some info of the HD 2600 XT AGP here:

http://img.hexus.net/v2/internationalevents/computex2007/TS/Tuesday/IMG_4955-big.jpg

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=8943

and for the PCI-E users there is the GeCube Gemini 3 which has 2 HD 2600XT´s on one PCB as 4 DVI-I´s:
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=8895
http://news.ferra.ru/images/125/125366.jpg

even MSI had a go at it:
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/8791/geminium1no8.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9262/geminium2jd2.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/660/geminium3nw5.jpg

So did Sapphire but with 4x DVI-I
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/501/s03565000rk7.jpg

http://http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1041/s03565615oc2.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5485/s03570078mr1.jpg

the GeCube has the best design since it´s PCB size is morely better, as for the MSI as Sapphire nice ideas but wy too big for the mid end user´s opinion.

but the power consumption is alot better thn that power slurping R600, only 89 watts per RV630XT VPU at max load.

here some nice scores of the HD 2900XT 1024MB GDDR4 model:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=146577

to be honest not much of a difference with the 512MB GDDR3 model, just a marginal 2000 extra points, maybe that might change in heavier applications as for CAD applications.