3dfx Archive - Anyone running RAID for a Voodoo5 PC?

Gold Leader Ex Member	Re: Anyone running RAID for a Voodoo5 PC? Reply #15 - 10.03.09 at 00:05:11 That's a V6K Safe mobo too razrx, congrats mate! Hutzeputz has the same exact mobo with his Rev.A 3700 though his card is PCI-Reworked , but even so this should not matter.
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razrx

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Re: Anyone running RAID for a Voodoo5 PC?
Reply #16 - 10.03.09 at 00:54:45

G1nX - Thanks! I thought it was a good deal too. I've seen 2600s, 2800s go for lots of money. I don't for see upgrading from the 2600s as the price is too much to warrant the change. I have a 10/100/1000 NIC to put in the board so if it's only the S2466, it's fine with me. I'm working on getting Highpoint RocketRAID 454 IDE card for the 4x 160GB drives. One day I'll flip it to SATA..... Wink

I have 4x 1GB Corsair XMS Platinum CL2 sticks, but I can only go to 2GB with unregistered ram. Tough call. I could go 4GB with registered. Registered ram looks cheap. What's the difference in speed, small or big?

Gold Leader - Thanks for the affirmation. I thought I'd seen a few people with v6ks and Tyan Dual CPU boards. I'm very interested in seeing this board up close. Shocked

BTW, does Hutzeputz speak English?

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Gold Leader Ex Member	Re: Anyone running RAID for a Voodoo5 PC? Reply #17 - 10.03.09 at 02:05:08 Hutze english no not very well but SK1 can give you some very good advice since he has the Tyan Thunder K7X , the uATX variant of the Tiger model same chipset as that goes hehe. I'll give SK1 a message via ICQ for you bud
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razrx God Member Offline 3dfx Addict Posts: 839 Great Lakes, Canada Gender:	Re: Anyone running RAID for a Voodoo5 PC? Reply #18 - 10.03.09 at 06:46:09 That sounds good, thank you for the offer. Also, G1nX has the S2466N-4M model. I wouldn't mind learning about this board from another Tyan MPX owner.
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Re: Anyone running RAID for a Voodoo5 PC?
Reply #19 - 10.03.09 at 12:53:34

@razrx the highpoint you are searching for is also a lower end product not benefiting from HW RAID technology see here the specs:
http://www.highpoint-tech.com/USA/rr454.htm
As an alternative you can keep an eye out for one of the 3ware cards from the 7 series.
http://www.3ware.com/products/parallel_ata.asp
Notice the RISC XOR chip and memory plus PCI-X connector.

As for the Tyan boards I have tested the S2469 K7X Thunder and the S2466N-4M. The first is slightly faster but lacking in layout design.
Also on these boards you can't use 1gb non-ecc non-reg modules to reach the 2Gb limit you can only use 512mb modules. For the ECC REG modules you can use 1gb modules to reach 4Gb but you will have lower performance compared to the non-reg ones see here why:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_memory
Best of luck setting up your new rig.

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GrandAdmiralThrawn

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Re: Anyone running RAID for a Voodoo5 PC?
Reply #20 - 10.03.09 at 21:40:32

I once ran Hardware RAID on a PC with a v5 5500, but that is ages ago. This was the Promise SuperTrak SX6000 with 128MB of Siemens ECC SDR-SDRAM Cache plugged in. XOR unit was an Intel i960RM, the 100MHz version of Intels old XOR processor. And it was damn slow.

In my experience with RAID, Hardware RAID solutions are limited by two things: Inter-Processor bandwidth (not Bus bandwidth, I'm talking about the bandwidth between the chips on the controller) and the speed of the XOR processor in parity-based redundant RAID solutions, e.g. RAID-3/4/5/6 and derivatives of these modes.

Software RAID solutions (like the HPT37x or Promise FastTrak lines) are mainly only limited by bus bandwith and system processor speed (as well as driver/BIOS implementation efficiency). But if you wanna do SoftRAID, you may as well do Windows or Linux Software RAID (Dynamic Volumes in Win2000/XP/.. or mdx/mdadm in Linux) instead, because this is about the same speed with increased platform flexibility.

However, if you wanna think (and spend) big, you may look out for 3ware's top-end solutions (as mentioned). Those are not quite "blazing fast", but somewhat ok. Their XOR units are 3ware proprietary..

Other solutions for three-digit MB/s transfer rates would be controllers with Intels IOP33x XOR processor series, or if you wanna go for the stars, Intels IOP34x XOR series. Those can go as high as 1-2GB/s. Prices will also be stellar though. But a 3ware off eBay should be affordable.

btw., I'm currently running an ICP Vortex 5085BR SAS/SATA RAID using RAID-6 at work (with SATA disks), as well as a 3ware 9650SE-8LMPL SATA RAID-6 at home with 8 x 1TB Hitachi 7k1000 HDDs. The ICP is kinda slow, but not because of the IOP333 on it (should do >100MB/s in RAID-6), but because of the crappy Linux Kernel driver...

The 3ware i have in my workstation at home does something around 140MB/s reads and 40-60MB/s writes in RAID-6 (raw performance) and around 100MB/s reads and 30-40MB/s writes on compressed NTFS on both WinXP x86 and WinXP x64.

But for a RAID-0 or RAID0+1/1+0 solution i would really suggest pure Windows or Linux Software RAID, as this will be the cheapest solution with very acceptable performance!

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&&

&&2 x Voodoo5 6000 AGP ([HiNT Rev.3700-A] (dead HB1-SE66), HiNT Rev.3400-A3)&&1 x Quantum3D Obsidian2 X-24&&2 x Diamond Monster3D II 12MB (Diamond MegaMonster)&&1 x Orchid Righteous 3D ("Click"!)&& ...and a lot more!

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SK1

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Re: Anyone running RAID for a Voodoo5 PC?
Reply #21 - 11.03.09 at 01:22:03

Hi, razrx!

About the RAM: The maximum is 4 gigabytes of registerred ECC RAM. If unregisterred, you can maximally use 3 gigs. My system didn't start with any more than 2 gigs of unregisterred (had four of the same RAMs and had so sell two of them again) RAM. I use unregisterred, which also has the benefit of an effectively slightly reduced latency. I can't explain that, Hutzeputz once told me that registration increases latency. But with registerred RAM, the entire system may run more stable.
BTW: Your Corsair XMS Platinum is kinda 'too good' bacause it is 'too new'. You know that the chipset can only do 266 MHz RAM clock @ CL2.0? AFAIK there is no way of getting higher speeds. I could software-overvlock my system by only 2 MHz (!) before it crashed (5500 AGP instead of 6000 inside back than for test purposes). Roll Eyes

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« Last Edit: 11.03.09 at 01:24:01 by SK1 »

That Darkwing Avatar is cool, I shouldn't replace it with a picture of my 6000.

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Re: Anyone running RAID for a Voodoo5 PC?
Reply #22 - 11.03.09 at 04:21:39

well since it's a workstation board it wasn't design for overclocking, these boards were designed for one purpose stabillity even whens tressed at the maximum load.

I used to have the ASUS A7M266-D with Dual AthlonMP 2200+ CPU's and 1x 1GB of TwinMoss PC-2100 ECC Reg, normally ECC Reg is a little slower , but it's moch more reliable and crash free.

So as from that part a crash free system is always faster than a system that keeps on crashing with much faster ram imho, because it would get the job done in a single go.

Overclocking with the A7M266-D wasn't a success either since it wasn't designed to OC, like most AM760 MPX weren't these are wworkstation as mid range server boards.

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razrx

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Re: Anyone running RAID for a Voodoo5 PC?
Reply #23 - 11.03.09 at 04:25:39

@G1nX - You've sold me on 3ware.

I'm looking for a 3ware RAID card. I would like to get a SATA card, but I have lots of IDE drives... LOL

I asked the seller what the motherboard is and he said a S2466N-M4. We'll see when it gets here as he seemed a little unsure.

OK, so then I would need 4x 512MB PC2700/2100 Unregistered DDR @ Cas 2.

BTW, I should mention that the OS will be Windows XP Professional.

@Thrawn - Hmmmm... you've given me lots to think about. I was thinking of doing either RAID-5 or RAID-10. I could be happy with two SATA drives in a RAID 0 to start with, but I would like a card that can handle at least 4 drives for future expansion. (I'm flip-flopping between SATA and IDE, eventhough I should only get SATA). Yeah, I will have to look into the Intel RAID cards tomorrow. I already have an Intel Gig NIC for the Tyan, so why not more Intel on an AMD board. hahahahaha!

@SK1 - It's very good to hear from you. I was hoping you would speak up too.

Thumbs up to your avatar!

Ok, so I am slightly confused.
You mentioned 3GB maximum with unregistered DDR ram? I thought it was only 2GB of unregistered ram that is the maximum. Also, I thought that the board won't accept 1GB unregistered sticks.

I'm really glad there is so many 3dfx collectors that use the dual MP Tyan boards. It really helps a n00b like me. Smiley

As per the manual: http://tyan.com/archive/support/html/manuals.html
it says that the board supports 4GB Registered and 2GB Unregistered.
Also, if Unregistered 2x 1GB dimms can be used in slots 1 and 2.
Cool! Cool

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« Last Edit: 11.03.09 at 06:58:02 by razrx »

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GrandAdmiralThrawn

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Re: Anyone running RAID for a Voodoo5 PC?
Reply #24 - 11.03.09 at 15:23:54

The older 3wares should be quite cheap, for PATA this one may be an idea: [Link]

For SATA, you can even get a somewhat decent 3ware WITH battery backup unit (protects your hardware write cache from losing data during a power failure) for just a few bucks: [Link]! Ok, it's three-digit range, but you'll get a BBU with it. Wink

Interface may be problematic though, better check your PCI Slot Keying.

3ware configuration interface nowadays is web-based by the way, just so you know. They also have a Commandline Utility for scripted stuff, and SMART Access for SmartMonTools is possible.

For instance, on my machine, there is a daily Batch/PERL Script running, generating these RAID HTML status reports: [Link]! So, with 3ware you can play around a lot. Wink

Oh, btw., that "Battery Temperature High" warning comes from my SLI roasting the RAID controller, so you better not plug a 3ware with BBU in a slot directly above your 295/285 GTX or 4870 X2 card, can get a bit warm while playing games. Wink

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« Last Edit: 11.03.09 at 15:41:06 by GrandAdmiralThrawn »

&&

&&2 x Voodoo5 6000 AGP ([HiNT Rev.3700-A] (dead HB1-SE66), HiNT Rev.3400-A3)&&1 x Quantum3D Obsidian2 X-24&&2 x Diamond Monster3D II 12MB (Diamond MegaMonster)&&1 x Orchid Righteous 3D ("Click"!)&& ...and a lot more!

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Re: Anyone running RAID for a Voodoo5 PC?
Reply #25 - 11.03.09 at 21:58:43

@razrx
Related to RAM on the S2466N mine did not start with either 1x1Gb Non-ECC Non-Reg or 2x1Gb in any slot so might be just a case of memory incompatibility with the GSkill sticks I had. So could be that you can find ones that work in 2x1Gb Non-reg configuration. You can get higher clocked ram 333, 400 as the board will use them at 266 with lower timings.
The buffer on the reg modules is used to sync the data between the modules installed in the system. Usually usefull for more than two modules and going up to 12 or more on higher end servers to be stable under peak loads and running 24/7. But for this system you can use without impact on stability Non-reg modules as I suppose you won't be running it nonstop.
For the RAID controller the SATA2 option I think would be overkill as the system will not use it to it's full potential as far as read/write is concerned and BBU is nice but also too much for your needs.
Still I have a 3ware 8006-2LP SATA controller on my v5 rig due to ease of cabling and the fact that I had the drives to spare so in the end it's a matter of choice/need for one storage interface or another.

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razrx

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Re: Anyone running RAID for a Voodoo5 PC?
Reply #26 - 12.03.09 at 00:13:22

@Thrawn - Wow, I saw those battery backup RAID cards. That's incredible! It makes sense that they are there.

Everything is going web-interface it seems. Printers, routers, TV tuners, etc... I like it. I can handle GUI or command line, so that's good to hear there's a choice. I might have to get back to you on the scripts as I have never programmed before.

There should be lots of room for ventilation. The case is an Antec NineHundred with a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz, an Intel 1000MT NIC and a Voodoo5 AGP card.

@G1nX - I will test the board with my four XMS sticks.... hopefully some combination of two will work and I can sell the other two along with the 2GB of registered ram that is being shipped here.

I wanted to get a four port card but they are only Low Profile.... so I went for eight.

I won a 3ware 9500S-8 8 port SATA RAID PCI card today on ebay - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160319657735

Here's a link to the specs - http://3ware.com/products/serial_ata9000.asp

Yeah baby! Now we're cookin' with gas!

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GrandAdmiralThrawn

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Re: Anyone running RAID for a Voodoo5 PC?
Reply #27 - 12.03.09 at 11:07:48

Good choice! I hope you have the right slot to plug that baby into! Wink

The 9500 series is just one notch older than my 9650 (which is PCIe). You will get all the advanced software with it that you need, Webinterface, SMART Access, email notification when something bad happens while you're not there etc.. I would however advise to look for a cheap (but not dead) battery unit some day, so you can safely enable your write cache, which greatly boosts write speed, especially random writes.

If you are truly interested in scripting the controller driver-utils and the SMART stuff (Smart Monitoring with eMail Notify etc.) I may be able to help you. Note however, that it will be a steep learning curve. Prepare to read a lot about Batch Scripting in Windows and maybe even a little bit of PERL and of course a bit of 3wares own documentation. I'm not really a coder myself (i can't code shit!!), so it took me days to get simple things working, but if you are motivated enough, it can be done. Cool

This will surely be some interesting machine! Cool

Edit: Just saw, the 9500S is double-keyed PCI, so should nicely work in any given PCI slot! 3ware even says so:

Quote:

PCI 2.2 compliant 64-bit/66MHz bus master (Backwards compatible with 32-bit PCI)

Another nice thing is, the 9500S has discrete SATA connectors, no multilane cables (4in1), which are more expensive.. So you can just use normal SATA cables with your 9500S!

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« Last Edit: 12.03.09 at 11:13:55 by GrandAdmiralThrawn »

&&

&&2 x Voodoo5 6000 AGP ([HiNT Rev.3700-A] (dead HB1-SE66), HiNT Rev.3400-A3)&&1 x Quantum3D Obsidian2 X-24&&2 x Diamond Monster3D II 12MB (Diamond MegaMonster)&&1 x Orchid Righteous 3D ("Click"!)&& ...and a lot more!

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razrx

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Re: Anyone running RAID for a Voodoo5 PC?
Reply #28 - 17.03.09 at 00:57:26

Thanks! I think that card will do nicely. Yeah, I saw all the features and it's gonna rawk!!! I will look into the battery backup. 3ware.com wants 60US for one. I'm sure it'll be less on ebay.

I will definitely hit you up for some scripts. Cool

This is my first server board. I've never had a 64 Bit PCI card or slot before. I was planning on using the 2nd 64bit PCI slot for the 9500S, so the Voodoo5 (5500 or 6000 AGP) card can have lots of room for cooling.

Lastly, have you heard about Tyan's capacitors? Do I need to worry about bad caps?

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« Last Edit: 17.03.09 at 01:22:56 by razrx »

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Re: Anyone running RAID for a Voodoo5 PC?
Reply #29 - 17.03.09 at 17:40:56

Congrats on the new acquisitions razrx.
The controller and the higher bandwidth slot will make a difference on you disk performance. Also you can check a V5 PCI in PCI66 and PCI33 slots you will have quite a difference in performance.
The Tyan boards and server boards in general are more expensive and use higher quality caps. I have 4 Tyan boards myself and not had issues with either one in this regard. But a bad power supply could cause them to leak or cause other issues with the board so best be sure to check them and use a quality PSU.

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