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Climategate - The end of the Global Warming fraud (Read 1130 times)
FalconFly
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Re: Climategate - The end of the Global Warming fraud
Reply #15 - 04.12.09 at 00:59:02
 
I see the usual suspect(s) violating the basic Forum ROE's but nothing new there... Good behaviour isn't for everyone it seems.

As far as I know, there are only three sorts of people when it comes to climate change :

1) People and organizations who profit massively from keeping everything "as is" for as long as possible, large scale industry members and their lobbyists. They actually care, but only about their profits. Cleaning up their production lines means investing money without any immediate profits and they hate that more than death.
Easy to understand (humans) but short-sighted and basically says "we'd kill the last tree, animal or human on the planet if there's money to be made with it".
Not too bright, not too f*cking bright... (good businessmen though)

2) People who precisely researched everything they measured and had it confirmed by hundreds of other scientists or verified their knowledge by other means. Whether CO2 is the holy grail or not in the end, climate research is "learning in progress" and naturally subject to some change over time. Absolute measurements however do not lie - climate simply is changing dramatically.
Arguably, the planet doesn't care a bit... humans however should, if given the choice.
Personally, I'd say it's too late to avoid what's coming however, looking at the level of improvements.

3) Those that simply don't care. Too busy with their own tiny existence I guess, be it by stress or just a very range-limited horizon. Consequently, even basic humanitarian approaches simply fail them.
But since there's no law prohibiting to be ignorant, nothing really further could be held against them. Technically, they're legal.

---------------------------------

On the Hacked Emails and such :
They're out, have been analyzed and revealed.... nothing new.

The fact that scientists also have to "sell" their findings and harden them against lobbyism in adequate ways isn't surprising nor new.
If all they did was to publish science newsletters, most people wouldn't even know about climate issues. That's the way things are. Despite the majority of people now having almost unlimited access to worldwide information (a billion times more knowledge available to them than a mere 25 years ago), the percentage of them who actually invest time and actively research information is still frightening low.
Knowledge about their surrounding planet has become an increasing dividing line it seems, otherwise it's unexplainable why some still have no clue while their very neighbour (literally) may have in-depth, hard information at the same time.
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« Last Edit: 04.12.09 at 01:01:42 by FalconFly »  
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Tim
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Re: Climategate - The end of the Global Warming fraud
Reply #16 - 04.12.09 at 09:33:14
 
Good post, except for the last paragraph.

The reason most people do not care anymore is because they actually can see through politics and the mess it is and choose to ignore most of it all together. It's got nothing to do with range limited horizon, ignorance and such, simply people have had enough of politics all together. This climategate is just another reason why politics are an absolute waste of time. Humans cannot rule themselves, every single form of government, whether it's democracy, communism, dictatorism etc has terribly failed.

And to say that even basic humanitarian approaches simply fail people that do not meddle in politics is simply too ludicrous for words, by saying that you are just tarnishing everybody with the same brush. Similarly, most politicians do exactly that, not a big surprise then that when politicians talk, most people ignore them.
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« Last Edit: 04.12.09 at 09:39:51 by Tim »  
 
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Re: Climategate - The end of the Global Warming fraud
Reply #17 - 04.12.09 at 10:10:13
 
I believe "man made" global warming is just a ploy. To mainly gain control by scaring people, and forcing certain beliefs on the population by passing laws etc etc.

Lets look at how many billions of years of years the Earth has been around. To think that we as humans started churning out co2 at a high rate about 100 years ago. Then to think that we could actually have that sort of impact is giving us waaay too much credit.

Whatever is happening as far as temperatures on Earth is going to happen. Whether we are here or not.

As far as people saying politics suck and its not worth worrying about. I actually agree. The problem is that its funny. I do worry about money. The government has a knack for taking hard earned money and using it in ways that it has no right to. This is in the u.s. of course.

I have to get off my soap box. I can feel my blood pressure spiking thinking about this stuff.
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Re: Climategate - The end of the Global Warming fraud
Reply #18 - 04.12.09 at 11:15:42
 
Michael Crichton makes my case for me, a long read but well worth it.

http://www.crichton-official.com/speech-ourenvironmentalfuture.html#

*man made global warming* is a farce, nothing more than a money grab.

"In the intro to one of his Jurassic novels, Crichton spoke of the arrogance of mankind to think we can change the planet's environment, be it weather-related, earthquakes, tsunami's, meteor strikes or ice ages, which have come and gone many times over the millenia. Mankind wasn't around to melt the mile-thick ice that covered the Northern hemisphere, yet the ice comes and goes, again and again. George Carlin said it best, recycling your soda can won't stop ice ages, pole reversals, axis recession, or global climate changes. The Earth was around before mankind was a twinkle in pond scum's eye, and will be circling the Sun long after all life on this planet is gone. "

There are many things that can be laid at mankinds feet, I doubt radical weather change is one of them Wink

I'm all for practical & smart energy policy (If it were up to me there would not be a single coal or gas fired plant in the US making electric!) but the "greens" are more interested in saying no to everything than actually doing something constructive.
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« Last Edit: 04.12.09 at 11:21:01 by gdonovan »  

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razrx
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Re: Climategate - The end of the Global Warming fraud
Reply #19 - 04.12.09 at 16:38:45
 
@ Tim - Stop flip flopping, first you talk like you are uninformed, then after rotten's statement, you come off like you don't care or pay attention.  Now you state that you do care.  Which one is it?  That is what is so frustrating, when talking to you. 

@sb306 - The way politics goes it does get tiring... however keep in mind that, "A government that is afraid of it's people is democracy, but a people that is afraid of it's government is tyranny."  Also, there is a new TV show on TruTV (formerly CourtTV) called Conspiracy Theory hosted by former Minnesota governor Jesse Ventura.  The first episode was on H.A.A.R.P (very interesting!).  The series is only seven episodes as the series is just being aired.  Its on Wednesday evening around 10pm Eastern.

@ Falconfly - you've certainly done your homework!  Smiley

@ gdonovan - good points.  Only one thing is that coal is actually a much cleaner burning fuel these days.  The reason why the oil industry wants to shut down the coal industry is that there is no monopoly or duopoly in the coal industry.  So the banksters who own the oil companies want to shut the coal industry down.
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« Last Edit: 04.12.09 at 17:08:03 by razrx »  

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Tim
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Re: Climategate - The end of the Global Warming fraud
Reply #20 - 04.12.09 at 18:06:53
 
razrx wrote on 04.12.09 at 16:38:45:
@ Tim - Stop flip flopping, first you talk like you are uninformed, then after rotten's statement, you come off like you don't care or pay attention.  Now you state that you do care.  Which one is it?  That is what is so frustrating, when talking to you.


Flip flopping? lol, I care about global warming, I don't care about politics, and their involvement with this whole scam.

Quote:
Reasons why I do not watch the news or pay any attention to politics/government.  (much happier that way not knowig of all the BS in the world)


I agreed with this statement, that I do not follow news or politics much cuz it's most of the same rubbish if it's not depressing. Next thing I get told to shut up, get my head out of the sand and pay attention. Freaking hell seriously.

You can have your little debate here.
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razrx
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Re: Climategate - The end of the Global Warming fraud
Reply #21 - 04.12.09 at 18:44:23
 
Governement/politics & the Environment are no longer homogenous topics, since the Governement realizes they can control and tax the people through Environmental issues.
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Tim
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Re: Climategate - The end of the Global Warming fraud
Reply #22 - 04.12.09 at 19:13:47
 
razrx wrote on 04.12.09 at 18:44:23:
Governement/politics & the Environment are no longer homogenous topics, since the Governement realizes they can control and tax the people through Environmental issues.


I will try and explain it once more.

If I didn't care about global warming, I wouldn't be posting in this thread. Ofcourse politics is now very much part of it, but does it make me like politicians? Does it make me want to watch, research politics? No of course not. Unfortunately, most news is based around politics and it's highly annoying, therefor I prefer to let most of the political discussion to just pass me by without paying much attention to it.

So don't jump down my throat for having an opinion on poitics please. This whole debacle makes me hate politics even more. Sorry for feeling that way!

Also note that I do not have the same stance Rottentreats has, who doesn't seem to bother about anything but himself, well atleast it sometimes seems like he doesn't. And I certainly do not agree with that, nor his derogatory comments towards you even though you did get on my nerves a bit.
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« Last Edit: 04.12.09 at 20:22:24 by Tim »  
 
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Re: Climategate - The end of the Global Warming fraud
Reply #23 - 04.12.09 at 19:22:50
 
*hugs*  Smiley

These topics are all highly emotional.  Sorry for pushing my opinion on you.  I just feel that, when you throw out the original weather data records, you have to be somewhat suspicious.
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Tim
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Re: Climategate - The end of the Global Warming fraud
Reply #24 - 04.12.09 at 20:21:03
 
razrx wrote on 04.12.09 at 19:22:50:
*hugs*  Smiley

These topics are all highly emotional.  Sorry for pushing my opinion on you.  I just feel that, when you throw out the original weather data records, you have to be somewhat suspicious.


*hug back*

No problem, these things do raise the bloodpressure a lot.  Smiley
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Re: Climategate - The end of the Global Warming fraud
Reply #25 - 04.12.09 at 22:37:56
 
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Re: Climategate - The end of the Global Warming fraud
Reply #26 - 05.12.09 at 00:49:33
 
rottentreats wrote on 04.12.09 at 22:37:56:
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LOL sorry, I had to laugh at that one. Makes you wonder what the puppeteer was doing at the time.   Shocked

I'm going to stay out of the global warming debate however I believe we should be pushing more towards electric cars or anything that's not petroleum based and this is why I believe so. It's a little off subject but it does kind of relate to the same thing in a general sense.

When I take my daughter to my parents to go swimming in the lake and at the end of the dock all you see is a rainbow color crawling across the top of the water from gas that's been drained into it from the roads after it's rained, I'd rather just put her in a kiddy pool and tell her to deal with it. I'm not putting her in that.

Regardless of global warming or not, at least in my area, some of the ponds, rivers, lakes are flat out disgusting with how much crap is in them. That's not even mentioning what's in the drinking water.

If anyone has driven from Milwaukee to Chicago on 894 (I think that's it) or on any of the major freeways (and that's just freeways) you'd see what I'm talking about. There's crap all over the place.

The planet may not be over heating because of stuff that we are doing but the water sure isn't getting any cleaner because of it. How many years was the Exon spill that Alaska is still seeing side effects from?

Either way, I think we do need to do something. Global warming I might not be able to tell the difference of, but old tires sticking out of ponds, gas floating on lakes and frogs with two heads and five legs I can see.
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« Last Edit: 05.12.09 at 00:50:35 by jandarsun8 »  
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Re: Climategate - The end of the Global Warming fraud
Reply #27 - 05.12.09 at 11:06:28
 
Well, that's a rather harmless animation indeed Wink

Anyway, just like any big/global topic, discussion is likely to be heated.

Besides :
Global warming isn't actually "politics". It just happens along and doesn't care about humans nor their politics.
Not sure if it helps our problem, but nature isn't something that could be invited to diplomatic talks or such. That's what makes people go at each other, since this time, there's no easy "other" to blame and unload the burden of corrective action.
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« Last Edit: 05.12.09 at 11:14:31 by FalconFly »  
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Re: Climategate - The end of the Global Warming fraud
Reply #28 - 05.12.09 at 12:19:01
 
FalconFly wrote on 05.12.09 at 11:06:28:
Global warming isn't actually "politics". It just happens along and doesn't care about humans nor their politics.


And chances are anything we do to "correct" it will cause even further damage.

The Earth as a system is far to complex for us to even comprehend, let alone start trying to fool about with.

Common sense goes a long way, but mentioning politics and common sense in the same breath is sort of an oxymoron like "jumbo shrimp"

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Re: Climategate - The end of the Global Warming fraud
Reply #29 - 22.12.09 at 21:19:35
 
This episode aired last week.  The host is the ex Governor of Minnesota, ex US Navy Seal and ex pro wrestler.  This is the third episode so far on TruTV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOYwur6T6tc&annotation_id=annotation_157582&featu...
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