So I decide to be a nice guy and give my old 9800Pro with DVI out a spin in the Shuttle box. I uninstall the GF2MX, clean out the NV drivers, download the ATI drivers and shutdown.

That was 2 hours ago.

1) A damn DLL error in the CCC software- No control panel nor anything in the ATI database as to why. Reinstall software three times to no effect. Finally try downloading just the CCC software and *IT* informs me I have to download Microsoft .NET framework just to run the control panel.

Bad ATI, strike one. A warning with the complete driver package would be nice as would driver software that doesn't require more bloatware from Microsoft.

More bloated crap added to my machine.

2) Finally get the Control panel working and it checks in with ATI on every reboot 5 or 6 times along with every time you open the control panel, bad ATI.

3) You can't set the screen rez to 1280 x 720 with the big flat panel because it doesn't show up as an option in the normal display properties AND if you try to get at it through the CCC the damn screen size is too small (720 x 480) to let you apply 1280 x 720!! The only way to set the screen to 1280 x 720 is to left click on the tray icon!!

4) Speaking of resolutions... If you try and set the screen rez to 1280 x 1080 (a reported safe rez)  you get a fine black screen, period, which doesn't go away after 15 seconds. Hit reset!

5) Quake 3 crashes and locks the computer when setting the res to 1024 x 768. Hit reset!

I'm done, the GF2 is going back in till the GF3 with DVI shows up.

ATI driver team you suck.

Got mad- Pulled the 6600GT from the main box, tossed it in, install the latest NV driver, 5 minutes later I'm watching "Saving Private Ryan"

Can't wait for the GF3 to get here, hope the DVI output is as good as the 6600GT.

I hope the GF3 is a Ti200 and not another MX.

Great price BTW ;)

With my X800 Agp I have had some problems of artifacts and I have decided to buy a X1950 Pro. Later I've discovered that with Catalyst less recent than 5.7 It was all ok.

P.s.
There are three Gf3 models: Ti200; GF3; Ti500.
No space for Mx series ;) It's sure that Gary have buyed a great card.

*Gainward CardExpert GeForce 3 PowerPack Golden Sample*
http://www.ixbt.com/video/itogi-video/gf3-gs.jpg
http://xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gainward-gs.html#sect3

A great guide for video if no one has seen it before-

http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=88&pgno=0

@Max_r

I just hope the DVI works fine, a little more grunt than the GF2MX would be cool too. At one point I was looking for a 9600/pro as the power consumption numbers were very good at idle but after the driver issues last night I don't want to go anywhere near one.

heh been us'n Omega Catalyst's since the 9700 Pro never had probs there, us'n 2K back then & XP Pro from the X800XT PE AGP but yeaps under 98SE they suck deeply since 98SE isn't that reliable as stable, I woluld always prefer 2000 Pro/XP Pro above everything, just much more reliable..

Oh well it all depeds on what you need and what your preferences are ;) If you run very old programs very few need 98SE but miost can run under XP Pro under 98SE compabillity mode or under 2000 Pro/XP Pro under Dos Box

I find the Forcewhere of the geforces suck deeply actually, NV just can't make stable as good drivers that give good image quallity as Omega/ATi.AMD can that's under 2K as XP only ;)

NV & 3dfx were once king at mak'n drivers for Linux & Win9.xx, as today NV makes solid drivers for Linux as ATI.AMD has improved though still lot's of fixes to go.

Here a list of the many major problesm with NV drivers hehe
http://www.google.nl/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=nl&q=bad+nvidia+driver+problems&meta=&btnG=Google+zoeken

Sh*t on both sides man. ;D

Still prefer 3dfx cards since they work perfectly in ANY OS ;)

But if you're a Linux man just use a Voodoo3/4/5 based card or a GeForce 3,4, FX, 6, 7 through 8 series they should do well enough, the best forcewhere drive I have used for 2K + XP was 84.21 WHQL, the sucked big time, their ForceWare 90.xx series layout was worse than the 80.xx ones so overdone :')

What I reckon is that your system is instable with ATi cards, I had similar things with my EPoX EP-8K5A2+ motherboard while playing RedAlert2 on the 5500 as ATi X800 XT PE  as the GeForce4 Ti 4600 Ultra, all three had troubles with Red Alert2, while playing it  it crashed after playing for not even 3 muinutes.

all other games ran fine, now this is weird. on the ASUS A7R333-R Rev.1.02 with all three cards, ASUS A8R32MVP Deluxe with CrossFire setup as 5500 PCI no probs as Dell Inspiron 9100 xTreme with M18 MR 9800 also no probs.

so my problem was amotherboard deciding me what to run and what not, while the 8K3A+ had no troubles the 8K5A2+ did since I had 2 of these one was new the other was second hand and both had the same troubles.

for the 6000 these are good boards for 3dfx games no troubles there, it's that Red Alert2 is a main game still being played here so everysystem has to quillify with that game hehe :)

wrote on 17.07.07 at 11:54:22:

heh been us'n Omega Catalyst's since the 9700 Pro never had probs there, us'n 2K back then & XP Pro from the X800XT PE AGP but yeaps under 98SE they suck deeply since 98SE isn't that reliable as stable, I woluld always prefer 2000 Pro/XP Pro above everything, just much more reliable..

I'm using Windows 2000 pro with service pack four.

This isn't about Win98 or Linux but about the 2 hours of my life wasted last night giving ATI another fair chance.

Less then 5 minutes and the NV board was up and running with everything working perfect, and I do mean perfect. Simple to change resolution controls, excellent HD LCD screen adjustment (something I did not see in the ATI panel), etc. In short, everything a driver package should be.

No fuss, no muss, it simply worked the first time.

The facts are what the facts are and will factor into my next purchase of a new board. It's rediculous ATI can't get a simple driver to work correct with a HD LCD in a reasonable manner.

I would suggest that ATI/AMD needs to steal some of the NV driver team or hire more people.

I think it's the motherboard, a similar factor I had with the EP-8K5A2+

Okay it had a game running issue with Red Alert2 not running propperly as while getting 6000 as 5500 lockups on the 8K5A2+ same went for the X800XT PE as the Ti4600 Ultra.

While the EP-8K3A+ ran every application as every card ran fine.

Shuttles are known to run instable with ATi cards as the older models do :-/, most have GeForce based cards, which might explain your problem.

I can understand your stress when something doesn't work the way you want it too, I know it' can get to major stressed levels, but then again I'd say relax and do something else for a change ;) then give it another shot.

Getting mad at things that don't want to work doesn't make it get better, it only confuses a stresses up the problem thereby not resolving it.

I'd say take a beer or 2, 3 .. 4 heh or a crate? or so? haha nah just kidd'n there ;D

If it doesn't work with ATi's then it's simple it just doesn't ;)  just use that 6600GT you have right? and go on with that nothing wrong with it's OpenGL as 2D, it does catch on pretty well as a mid end card these days.

What it also could be is that your ATi card has a defection, defect ram, defect parts things liek that though hard to eblieve since I have seen more defect GeForces than defect ATi cards.. but doesn't mean it isn't possible ofcourse ! ;)
@ x-3dfx most of our people have ATi cards as primay VGA's and really we come accross the most crazy setups and they do work greatly as many of our people ahve GeForce 8 series setups also, and really modern ATi & nVidia cards are about the same qua drivers up till now and I'm tlaking about the X1K series as X*.xx seris as teh GeForce 6,7 and 8 series.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 12:24:35:

I think it's the motherboard, a similar factor I had with the EP-8K5A2+

If you r-read my first post you will clearly see that the problems are clearly related to how the driver and control panel software are written. Quake3 crashing is just the icing on the cake.

It's a known good board, I should know as I purchased it new and have used it for years.


Quote:

Shuttles are known to run instable with ATi cards as the older models do :-/, most have GeForce based cards, which might explain your problem.

Not true, as this Shuttle model shipped with a 9800pro from the factory.


Quote:

I can understand your stress when something doesn't work the way you want it too, I know it' can get to major stressed levels, but then again I'd say relax and do something else for a change ;) then give it another shot.

I'm not suppose to get upset after working in a smoking hot & humid garage for 10 hours and have another 2 hours of my life wasted trying to get something working the way it is suppose too?

Hence the rant part if you missed it.

I'm not computer illiterate, Imagine I was some poor smuck who didn't know the first thing about computers.

For me you need to find the proper drivers for your 9800 Pro because if you choose the right relase surely you solve the problem.
I prefere Ati afterall (I have had problem with x800 and x1950 Pro) but I also have some Nvidia board. In my experience I have learned to install only the drivers in both case. If you need an interface to set the monitors you can install the old control panel ;)

you sound sooooo serious into it as your life depends on it ::) Sorry man I wouldn't care if one of my systems fail, I'd just get over it as get to the point as if:

"okay it's not working the way I want to so therefore I have to find antoher way to get it to work! "

Like you did with the 6600 GT and use the ATi card in something else or use the omega drivers 7.04 incombination with CCC 7.4 as ATi WDM 7.4

Anyways I'd say Custom built systems goes above everything, really you can decide which mobo you want which VGA you want which ram you want and so on and not the company who builds them, so much cheaper as better as far more reliable way to set up a system.

Just use Omega Drivers 7.04 + ATi WDM 7.4 & RadLinker 2.033 they really rock.

ATi CCC isn't that great as the older control panels true there, though the CrossFire system is do'n okay with it here.

Shuttles have bad reps here in teh European Union, unless you leave them with Shuttle's installation they might work the way you want them to.

I did read you ranty part and really why rant on something that doesn't work, kinda pointless way of showing you hate a brand lol, I had many same experiences with nVidia , but never started a rant topic about them since it's A a waiste of time and B it would end as a senseless topic anyways ;)

wrote on 17.07.07 at 13:35:30:

In my experience I have learned to install only the drivers in both case.

Tried that first- The problem is the max resolution was limited to 720 x 480 with no other options available in the Windows graphics options tab.

The LCD is plug in play too which makes it even more irratating.

Bottom line- The NV drivers worked perfect out of the box first shot with a minimum of intrusion, the ATI drivers were hell.

I'm glad my X850 gives me no problems in the gaming box. I'd perfer to own ATI for obvious reasons but see no reason to keep throwing money at a company who can't write drivers worth a damn.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 13:38:25:

you sopund serious into it as your life depends on it

My time is VERY limited between a custody battle with my daughter, owning and upgrading a 105 year old house and a very demanding job.

I have little patiance for anything that wastes my time in a manner that should not be so.


Quote:

okay it's not working the way I want to so therefore I have to find antoher way to get it to work!

B.S.

If an item I purchased doesn't work with the current drivers downloaded direct from the ATI website there is a serious problem.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 13:38:25:

I did read you ranty part and really why rant on something that doesn't work, kinda pointless way of showing you hate a brand lol

You clearly have not read a thing I posted have you?

wrote on 17.07.07 at 13:43:43:

My time is VERY limited between a custody battle with my daughter, owning and upgrading a 105 year old house and a very demanding job. I have little patiance for anything that wastes my time in a manner that should not be so.

I know you have other problems man wasn't aiming at that, but that a PC can take control of you in such a sad way, please leave it aside, Go Voodoo man, @ least 3dfx shows us alot of pride ;)

Still miss them like all of us do.

105 year old house Wow is it a landmark as well in a way did a famous man live in it before you or was it from your geat great father?

Cool man very cool, I liked the white paint job hehe, painted by hand?


wrote on 17.07.07 at 13:45:14:

You clearly have not read a thing I posted have you?

uhm I did  but it came A little over in a too negative way, as if it would help? why would I go in to that in the first place?

btw do you read mine then I have told you use the Omega drivers in combination with ATi Tool or Radlinker 2.033 many times but that doesn't seem to get in your mind i guess lol.

It's that ATI CCC needs NET.2.0 to run it, that makes it load very slow with too much graphical interfaces and crap and yes ATi CCC is lessetr stable than all 3rd party CP's also the main reason I advise people as client to use the 3rd party drivers with CP's for a much stable as reliable performance.

Think this way if one way doesn't work don't take that same way find another way.

Sadly both Ati and Nvidia prefere to develop an enormous number of similar video board rather than to develop serious drivers. 3Dfx was different.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 13:47:08:

Go Voodoo man, @ least 3dfx shows us alot of pride ;)

<shakes head>

Have a Voodoo4 compatible with my Motherboard chipset that has functioning DVI output that will display at 1280 x 768 you can loan me?

wrote on 17.07.07 at 13:50:05:

<shakes head> Have a Voodoo4 compatible with my Motherboard chipset that has functioning DVI output that will display at 1280 x 768 you can loan me?

heh a 16:9 reso it should work when using the correct monitor driver or a DDC monitor, autoconfig.

I suppose you allready tried that ?

Anyways I can't see what you are do'n let's say 12.784 KM from here.

Use the Voodoo4 4800 AGP Rev.A0 2600 that may get it done
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/12984-1/4800_1.jpg

it should work exellently under win 2K pro with AmigaMerlin 3.1 R1 as AmigaMerlin 3.1 R11 or SFFT 47 :)

Yoda say's
"Don't shake head, think of other ways, resolve your problem you will. "

you could add extra reso'n in the .inf file dunno if this might work heh.

But then again if you say your X850 is so good in the gam'n rig, why not use your so called "precious time" with that card in the Shuttle sys instead of givin yourself as us such a hard time as waisting your so called "Precious Time" with the 9800 Pro?


wrote on 17.07.07 at 13:41:39:

I'm glad my X850 gives me no problems in the gaming box. I'd perfer to own ATI for obvious reasons but see no reason to keep throwing money at a company who can't write drivers worth a damn.

I reckon your 9800 Pro has a compabillity problem with your shuttle mobo, as where the X850 might not as the 4800 and 6600GT either.

Just think'n of some idea's that might work, not offending you if that is how you may think of this situation.

1) I have no intention of using a one of a kind 3dfx prototype in a media center.

2) I risk blowing up the power supply if I use a card that is too powerfull, which *I have already stated*

3) There is nothing wrong with the 9800pro, as it was pulled from a working machine and 95% if the problems I have related here are directly related to the driver working properly.

I have also already made it clear that this box actually shipped from Shuttle with a 9800Pro installed, I don't think Shuttle would be selling SFF systems with video boards that don't work.

See? This is a typical Obi/ATI post- Someone has a problem with ATI hardware and you leap to thier defense irregardless of facts.

Pointless to the extreme.

Could I get it to work after tinkering with it for days? I'm sure I could if I wanted to invest a rediculous amount of time trying different driver revisions and control panels.

But whats the point? My time is valuable.

1) Install NV board.
2) Load drivers.
3) Watch movie.

10 minutes tops.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 14:49:45:

1) I have no intention of using a one of a kind 3dfx prototype in a media center. 2) I risk blowing up the power supply if I use a card that is too powerfull, which *I have already stated* 3) There is nothing wrong with the 9800pro, as it was pulled from a working machine and 95% if the problems I have related here are directly related to the driver working properly. See? This is a typical Obi/ATI post- Someone has a problem with ATI hardware and you leap to thier defense irregardless of facts. Pointless to the extreme. Could I get it to work after tinkering with it for days? I'm sure I could if I wanted to invest a rediculous amount of time trying different driver revisions and control panels. But whats the point? My time is valuable. 1) Install NV board. 2) Load drivers. 3) Watch movie. 10 minutes tops.

heh uhm yeaH morely a typical gary post of blaming his problems on somebody else.
Laying your problems on others is that what you like do'n  :')

As if people want to read rants!! come on Are you facing the meaning of reallity here?

My time is more valuble sorry man but you are go'n too far here also one of the reasons I left here before so ghey and so on, blaming it on me and so on, all what i as do'n is trying to help you out find other ways but you read my posts as if they were jokes, then I'm like go else where.

is the rock okay?

wrote on 17.07.07 at 14:54:58:

heh uhm yeaH morely a typical gary post of blaming his problems on somebody else. kanker ami

Oh? Please explain.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 14:54:58:

As if people want to read rants

Err, you have, several times in fact.

So the answer is, yes some people do actually read rants.

this is one of them moments man

wrote on 17.07.07 at 14:49:45:

1) I have no intention of using a one of a kind 3dfx prototype in a media center. 2) I risk blowing up the power supply if I use a card that is too powerfull, which *I have already stated* 3) There is nothing wrong with the 9800pro, as it was pulled from a working machine and 95% if the problems I have related here are directly related to the driver working properly. I have also already made it clear that this box actually shipped from Shuttle with a 9800Pro installed, I don't think Shuttle would be selling SFF systems with video boards that don't work. See? This is a typical Obi/ATI post- Someone has a problem with ATI hardware and you leap to thier defense irregardless of facts. Pointless to the extreme. Could I get it to work after tinkering with it for days? I'm sure I could if I wanted to invest a rediculous amount of time trying different driver revisions and control panels. But whats the point? My time is valuable. 1) Install NV board. 2) Load drivers. 3) Watch movie. 10 minutes tops.

Kinda ghey ya know, and really I don't care if it's an ATi card, NV card S3 Card , matrox card or what ever, it just how you see my posts as spam instead of the truth.

here in the netherlands we have a forum naemd Gathering of Tweakers we have had 65 ATi topics and they are still going on dtrong as almost 75 nvidia topis as that of Matrox, SiS , XGI and so on we don';t care who ahs what brand, you probably do.

Just get to the point of your problem, you don't have to make a big rant about it, so pointless.

@ x-3dfx.com I would of locked this allready really.

Quote:

Sadly both Ati and Nvidia prefere to develop an enormous number of similar video board rather than to develop serious drivers. 3Dfx was different.

Actually, I believe that both ATi and nVidia have their fair share of very unique technology today, of course they'll care more about GPU development than designing the boards. And for the card manufacturers it has just become uneconomical to design their custom layouts. But there are exceptions, like single-board SLI/CF solutions for instance. ;)

@Gary: I can understand why you're mad, i stopped using ATi cards because of software problems way back, and i have to admit I'm quite the NV fanboy today. Built a machine using a X1950XT this weekend and had serious CCC installation/operation problems because of a missing .NET 2.0. Basically, setup decided to put a crippled CCC installation on the machine instead of aborting setup after the failed .NET 2.0 detection. Installation of .NET 2.0 and then a clean reinstallation of Catalyst+CCC resolved the problem, and yes, this had cost me valuable time.

But then again, time can't be THAT valuable after all, 'cause we do not only obviously have the time to rant about it, but also to answer to those rants and deliver yet another flame thread. ;)

Maybe it would be better to give ATi your feedback, not some 3dfx forum on the web, where not a single ATi developer or other staff member will ever read this. Tell those, who are responsible. Doing so finally changes things, it may take time, but it only works by telling the developers. (Think AA and AF "politics" on GeForces and how they changed....)

wrote on 17.07.07 at 15:04:52:

Maybe it would be better to give ATi your feedback, not some 3dfx forum on the web, where not a single ATi developer or other staff member will ever read this. Tell those, who are responsible. Doing so finally changes things, it may take time, but it only works by telling the developers. (Think AA and AF "politics" on GeForces and how they changed....)

that is exactly what I would of done or on an ATi support forum or from Shuttle where you got the 9800 pro with, not here gary that doesn't resolve it it would obly stur it up in a flamewar, which nobody is after anyways.

no offence at you but the way you aimed it at me again with no good reason I hate that as many other friends of mine do, don't do that too many times, it can give them a very bad idea on who you are and how you really think of others and really I had hoped not for this to be that way. :-/

wrote on 17.07.07 at 15:06:39:

exactly topics like these don't belong in a 3dfx forum it would only lead into trouble anyways.

We are in the right subforum anyway ;)

wrote on 17.07.07 at 13:48:31:

Sadly both Ati and Nvidia prefere to develop an enormous number of similar video board rather than to develop serious drivers. 3Dfx was different.

These are the facts :)

wrote on 17.07.07 at 15:11:24:

We are in the right subforum anyway ;) Those are the facts :)

a 3dfx forum doesn't need this as sub forum it would only pull the members appart from each other.

this place should be like a Furnace place, topics that run so bad should be put here, but shouldn't be able to be replied to, only Admins as Moderators should eb able to de enter The Furnace to place bad topics not common users, not a samrt idea tio have a place like this here where as everyone can access.

Ranters should be expelled.

Sometimes it's a good thing to express an opinion
Sadly both of you are angry each other

I remember my own forums back in the time where my HW site was still up and running. There was a "Vortex of chaotic Anarchy" subforum with absolutely no rules and no moderation whatsoever.

This became one hell of a pit of verbal violence, p0rn and just everybody saying what they thought about each other openly. But it sure was one hell of fun too, people loved it.

But then again, most people can't handle anarchy forums. Taking things too seriously and stuff.

Moderated forums tend to be more... *caugh*, "civilized".

wrote on 17.07.07 at 15:02:32:

this is one of them moments man Kinda ghey ya know, and really I don't care if it's an ATi card, NV card S3 Card , matrox card or what ever, it just how you see my posts as spam instead of the truth.

Have I ever stated you posts were spam?

Nope.

I can assure you the truth of what happened last night, since I was there to live through it.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 15:20:16:

Sometimes it's a good thing to express an opinion Sadly both of you are angry each other

Sadly he's be'n so obsesive at one small problem I would be like take a beer or 2 and move on

Really if a system doesn't work normal here I wouldn't lose my mind, since it's a pointless way of seeing the problem.

Think of something else then get back to the probleml and solve it.

Because I know gary has had a very rough time many of us know that but this computerproblem might add up in a feeling that can, but really please don't take it this seriously Gary, it's not worth it it really isn't there are much more important things to get worried about, there really are.

All i said was use the Omega Drivers with ATi Tool or Radlinker 2.033 that is just one of many metrhods I used for my ATi setups, even test the X850 in your sys, just give it a shot, that shouldn't harm it ?

wrote on 17.07.07 at 15:04:52:

But then again, time can't be THAT valuable after all, 'cause we do not only obviously have the time to rant about it, but also to answer to those rants and deliver yet another flame thread. ;)

Heh, I'm on the clock now ;-)

wrote on 17.07.07 at 15:28:12:

Sadly he's be'n so obsesive at obe small problem

Wow is that a whopper.

Not being able to use hardware with a minimum of fuss that I paid for is a minor problem?

wrote on 17.07.07 at 15:20:16:

Sometimes it's a good thing to express an opinion Sadly both of you are angry each other

I only get mad at people when they don't listen because they are so self focused they don't wish to hear anything that violates their worldview.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 15:30:04:

Wow is that a whopper. Not being able to use hardware with a minimum of fuss that I paid for is a minor problem?

uhm is this funny? answer no :') I get mad at people think that they are the only in the world that have the same problem and that don't even have the time to read other's posts thereby laying their problems on others than them selves, that is where you went to the wrong path Gary.

I read your posts but when they lead to the DarkSide I knocked off since I don't like ranted posts in the first place, just something that should of been expelled from all fora LONG AGO.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 15:34:22:

I get mad at people think that they are the only in the world that have the same problem and that don't even have the time to read other's post thereby laying their problems on others than them selves, that is where you went on the wrong path Gary. .

See? waste of breath, your still defending ATI.

Obi, it's a company not a religion.

Repete after me-

1) Install NV (or S3 or Matrox if thier drivers don't suck) board
2) Install drivers.
3) Enjoy using your hardware.

No muss, no fuss, no headaches.

Fanboy attitudes like yours make me want to swear off any ATI future purchases, seems that fanboys might be the only thing keeping the company afloat... It certainly isn't solid driver sets.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 15:38:30:

See? waste of breath, still defending ATI. Obi, it's a company not a religion.

heh where can you see the word defeding ATi?

come on being very skeptical, you're thinking about yourself again, WRONG! >:(

Was ist das? sie spache warzahl, sie bint mehr ein NV fanboy oder?

I'm not a Comapny fan not in a long shot, 3dfx, Matrox, ATi.AMD, nVidia uhm yeahh what's next S3? maybe.

Man you think the same all the time if somebody doesn't agree with you , yous een them as an ATi Fanboy whahaha come on give us a break here.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 15:39:27:

heh where can you see the word defeding ATi? come on being very skeptical, you're thinking about yourself again, WRONG! >:(

Talking about you Obi.

You would throw yourself in front of a bus for ATI rather than admit they have driver issues.

don't talk about death suicidals I have been there many times you havn't probably be carefull on what you say lad, you can go too far sometimes...

I'm no fan NV or ATi , 3dfx I am but that feelins dying in these places because of gay like topics like this one, no wonder.

I suppiose you posted it to get into my sole and rape it, well you're do'n you best at that now, and really I might leave this palce as take many with me, since now I know whay that this place can be cdangerous for new people.

I'll put this as article in my archive as an example on how people can loose their minds just because somebody his hav'n a sminor problem whith his hard ware he freaks out at others that neevr had such problems as they are trying to help him a way out anyways possible and all you get is a louse response from the man with the minor lousy problem yaaay

wrote on 17.07.07 at 15:44:43:

I'm no fan NV or ATi , 3dfx I am but that feelins dying in these places because of gay like topics like this one, no wonder.

Your no fan of ATI? I'd almost bet you have an "ATI" tatto somewhere.

One only has to review your ATI thread to lay that lie to rest.

Obi have you even considered that if the ATI drivers worked like they should have I would have noted as such just like I noted how well the NV drivers worked?

Credit where credit is due is how I live my life.

I'm happy with the x850 in the gaming box, doesn't matter to me what I'm gaming with as long as it works like it should, a very simple point which you keep missing.

Of course this is a non-moderated zone but this doesn't mean that we can forget the netiquette :)

therefore I stated try that X850 in that shuttle does it hurt that much come on get over it, i have the feeling you are blaming me that your shuttle ain' t work'n with ther 9800 about that suicidal part don't you dare do that agin it's something I have tried 7 times that are things I rather not read from an Admin.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 15:44:43:

I suppiose you posted it to get into my sole and rape it,

No, I posted a rant after wasting 2 hours of my life giving ATI hardware another fair shot.

This is the only board I generally post on, your not the only one who can make agnst filled posts eh?

wrote on 17.07.07 at 16:00:17:

No, I posted a rant after wasting 2 hours of my life giving ATI hardware another fair shot. This is the only board I generally post on, your not the only one who can make against filled posts eh?

sja je doet maar weet je.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 15:59:26:

therefore I stated try that X850 in that shuttle does it hurt that much come on get over it.

Are you dense?

What part of "BLOW UP THE POWER SUPPLY" isn't understandable? It is below the X850 min spec.

What does a driver that requires .net 1/2/3 have to do with installing the X850?

What does a driver that checks into ATI 6 times every reboot have to do with the x850?

How will installing the x850 make these issues go away?

wrote on 17.07.07 at 16:01:24:

yeaps he aimed it at me allright  teh n00b

It's not all about you, sheesh!

It's not all about me, heh if you read the whole thread lol, it would seem that it is aimed at me even when I tried to help you, uhm why did you post the thread then?


wrote on 17.07.07 at 16:02:54:

Are you dense? What part of "BLOW UP THE POWER SUPPLY" isn't understandable? It is below the X850 min spec. What does a driver that requires .net 1/2/3 have to do with installing the X850? What does a driver that checks into ATI 6 times every reboot have to do with the x850? How will installing the x850 make these issues go away?

You're dense man not me lol think what you think of me it's like I'd care ::)

Just buy a quallity PSU for it & problem solved I ashume you have enough cash for a good Tagan 350 Watt PSU lol. a system deserves a stable and reliable PSU.

my XFX GeForce 6800GT AGP 256MB as ASUS Radeon X800XT PE AGP 256MB worked fine with an Enermax EG365VE 350 Watt PSU in the AthlonXP 2700+ since an Athlon64 3400+ uses a lesser core voltage than the AthlonXP 2700+ you should do fine with a nice 350 Watt Enermaxx or Tagan or Antec what brand prefers you for that part. And oh a Raden 9800 pro uses more power than a GeForce 6600GT ;)

wrote on 17.07.07 at 16:07:18:

Just buy a quallity PSU for it & problem solved I ashume you have enough cash for a good Tagan 350 Watt PSU lol. a system deserves a stable and reliable PSU

What part of LIVING ROOM MEDIA CENTER is not clear?

Good God man! It's for playing movies!

yeah so? A good reliable movie center deserves a reliable PSU, what word of stabillity do you not understand?

And again the 9800 pro uses more power than the 6600GT so that might expalin why it locks up as well.

Good Lord Of The Force man I'm not that wacko D'oh ::) otherwise get a cheapo X1300SE and use that if you'd want an ATi card in it heh otherwise use that 6600GT and feel happy, don't make it look as problem that can't be solved because it can.

Uhm btw the GeForce need DotNET.2.0 as well for 90.xx drivers too as the X850 does, So then agian difference for DotNET.2.0 nope.

I'd say rant ATi or Shuttle not us.

[OT]I thought to find here a little peace ::)[/OT]

Smacks head.

So I'm expected to steal the x850 from my gaming box and replace the power supply in my media center to make you happy?

Why on earth should I do that? The ATI drivers are clearly shit for this application.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 16:17:56:

[OT]I thought to find here a little peace ::)[/OT]

yeah good idea, lock this topic, it's getting way off course.

Actually since it is my rant it can stay open, just stop reading if it offends you.

No one reads rants anyways right?

wrote on 17.07.07 at 16:20:30:

Smacks head. So I'm expected to steal the x850 from my gaming box and replace the power supply in my media center to make you happy? Why on earth should I do that?

because the PSU of the Shuttle has not enough feed does it not?

With the 9800 pro it surely does by the looks of your problems, why would you dangle on while recieving the same sh*t and not taking respect on what others are trying to tell you?

it's doesn't get to your head I guess http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/792/traantjeeu5.jpg

wrote on 17.07.07 at 16:13:24:

Uhm btw the GeForce need DotNET.2.0 as well for 90.xx drivers too as the X850 does, So then agian difference for DotNET.2.0 nope.

Wrong, I have no .net drivers now, they were flushed when I cleared out the ATI drivers.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 16:22:44:

because the PSU of the Shuttle has not enough feed does it not? With the 9800 pro it surely does by the looks of your problems, why would you dangle on while recieving the same sh*t and not taking respect on what others are trying to tell you? it's doesn't get to your head I guess :')

Hey Obi, try reading the posts-

The box *SHIPPED* with a 9800pro, the box is certified for use with a 9800pro and it has an upgraded PS already and works fine with the 6600GT.

Though I would not want to try that for any period of time running 3D apps.

Well i do man, it's that you thinkI don't feel what you think is right ofcourse, I can't decide that for you sorry man.

Did it work when you bought it? if so why didn't you leave it in the state it was :-X bad experiences wioth branded systems

and if you are having trouble with it now why not mail shuttle I mean they do have a term of support not?

If they don't there's your problem --> Shuttle delivers unrealible hardware setups.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 16:27:47:

heh yeaH mkay uhm did it work when you bought it?

See? you don't read posts.

The answer is several posts ago.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 16:29:40:

See? you don't read posts. The answer is several posts ago.

I don't answer stupid questions!! Hey that makes sense! --> NEXT!;D

I mean why continue anyways? Nobody would really answer that http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/792/traantjeeu5.jpg

Your problem is to aimed at the problem you have, people do state ways of help but you don't seem to see that either, I dunno what you want from us here.

This is exactly why I stopped posting on the board.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 16:31:57:

This is exactly why I stopped posting on the board.

Well there you go, you state a problem people read it they post things that might help so do I and then you come around with results of that people don't read your posts then I'm like wtf are you' blaming them for? where is the sense of sensable in that?

there isn't I have given you tips on what might help, since I enevr bought a shuttle and was neevr planned to since they are unreliable.

Ayways for a movie box the PSU it has is far below the specs for a 9800 Pro I did state that as well then again it looks as if you don't even read posts of opthers as mine but go on with yourself a typical thing I have seen elsewhere.

And really people get sickj and tierd of that loose interrest and move elsewehre THAT is one of many I left this boards it often lacked that.

Voodooalert.de as x-3dfx.com don't, oh well I won't be round for long as this will be posted on my front Page since as a good warning, the people @ x-3dfx.com are shocked what happened here, it used to be a loyal place but sadly that has left here somehow.

Now I know how a once so cool 3dfx club can fall appart, damn trol posts here.  >:(

Just to get the message to you Gary I care about others than that of myself here sometimes I sense the Dark side in you so often the last few months, as if you don't seem to care if somebody tries to help you you state them us'n fanboy behaviour that falls under spam imho as that of others and mate listen up peopel are sick and tired of that nonsense bull crap really we want 3dfx topics, we want to see 3dfx blooming again, we don't care about ranted topics they have non of the importance which people aren't looking for they DO NOT BELONG here as this whole Twighlight Zone idea, just a bad move.

this is a 3dfx related forum as where that Voodoalert as x-3dfx com did is make small subfora for ATi as nVidia users not some TwilightZone idea the show was very cool but the sub fora no not really.

VA as x-3dfx have smarter ways of doing, 3dfx isn't their main thing anymore which is logic as 3dfx tiopics do wander by from here and then, as do nvidia as ATi ones but everyone sticks to their thing they don't rant each other oof like over here that does seem to happen alot, you just have to type something accidently and the other may see it as Spam or Rant or attack that is the reason most go to VA as X-3dfx it's that those things don't seem to happen there, the kindness of the people is greater also, which also is a reason I left this place before.

Calling me a spammer forno reason the nipwits.

Everything I posted you have not read or totally disregarded, what is the point of you posting if you will not listen?

This isn't a trobleshooting thread but a rant, understand?

wrote on 17.07.07 at 16:54:58:

Everything I posted you have not read or totally disregarded, what is the point of you posting if you will not listen? This isn't a trobleshooting thread but a rant, understand?

I have not read what teh! How can tou see what I do here please xplain? do you have the eyes of Jor El?

wrote on 17.07.07 at 16:36:08:

x-3dfx have smarter ways of doing.

I suggest going there, now.

heh well feel free to do what you like man, you were alot different in the old days so many cool 3dfx topics you've made and so on

Now this pointless stuff, heh you must do what you feel is best ofcourse, I sense the Dark Side in You Gary as your anger is swelling can't you feel that too?

Heh I do man I do and it's only making you go mad on others, some Admin this is somethign Would never have expected from your side.

I was wrong there.

If you are gonna ban me go ahead have your fun f*cknut.
But you will get the flow that will follow.

Can't even state what he is do'n to the 3dfx community, spread this news I will.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 17:17:41:

Now this pointless stuff

Err, it's a rant posting in the correct section of the forum, nothing pointless about it.


Quote:

I was wrong there.

No, you are wrong here and refuse to admit it because as it has been pointed out before you are an ATI fanboy. At any time you could have stopped posting and ignored the thread, you chose not too.


Quote:

If you are gonna ban me go ahead have your fun f*cknut. But you will get the flow that will follow.

Now that is not nice, I did not insult you in such a manner did I? Of course not.

This is all falling on deaf ears, you hear and see what you wish to my friend, it has always been that way with you.

I feel chased aways sorry about that swear words okay it wasn't nice but honestly I feel deeply offended did you think i liked that come on go walkabout will ya, like jumping on front of that bus, do you know how it feels like do's a self suicide? I'd guess not.

The point of deleting my user is really on my mind as if I am the one to blame on what is wrong with your PC, sorry man that isn't honorable, I have given you many idea's on how to solve your problem it's that you don't see my posts either that is where we collided, how obvious is it not?

you hear and see what you want as well it's just all I do is wrong in my life and now even when I try to help someone it just doesn't seem to work and yes suicides didn't seem to work sad enough.

With topics like these the community seems to be falling appart so senseless

wrote on 17.07.07 at 17:31:40:

The point of deleting my user is really on my mind as if I am the one to blame on what is wrong with your PC

The problem with my PC is the ATI driver software, something you refuse to accept to the point of rediculous extremes.

FYI- To "throw someone under the bus" or "to step in front of a bus" are common english slang phrases, they have nothing to do with suicide.

wrote on 17.07.07 at 17:33:40:

The problem with my PC is the ATI driver software, something you refuse to accept to the point of rediculous extremes.

I do accept that it's faling but it could also be something hardware related a 200 qatt PSU isn't sufficiant for an ATi card You I had hoped you'd know that.
want proof okay

See? You don't listen.

The box is rated for and shipped with a 9800pro *AND* has a new power supply that is rated 50 watts higher than the original.

Thread is now locked.

This thread is now unlocked....

It shall be a testbed as to who can live by the most basic rules and who can not.

I highly recommend all potential candiates in question to either learn their lesson, stop wasting my time or face the consequences.

I am - politely spoken - utterly pissed at all this and won't put up with it, not even for another day. Catch the drift ? Enough said.

http://www.falconfly.de/img/Iowa.jpg
Feeling lucky today ?

So I will recap to illuminate for those joining the party-

I have this great big honking 37" HD LCD TV that I just treated myself to (praise be to Wal-Mart! Always low prices!)

One of the things I have been planning to do was setup a PC in the living room to stream ripped DVD movies off, in this case to the B.H.D. (Big Honking Display) The idea was something small and using as little power as reasonable to do the job. The current box being used is a Shuttle Small Form Factor with a 3400+ and a GF2MX.

Low power consumption graphics that decode DVD's just fine with little noise but with only one catch- The GF2's S-video output looks like poo on an LCD not to mention the limitation of the TV output chip (640 x 480 or 800 x 600)

Native resolution of the LCD is 1280 x 720i or 720 x 480i

So to see if things would look better I noticed that Wal-Mart has HDMI -> DVI adapter cables. If I could run a video input into the B.H.D. through the HDMI perhaps the picture would look better.

After bending over for a $30 cable and dragging my main box with a 6600GT & DVI out of storage for testing (a long story in itself, I will not go there) I hooked everything up and was stunned by the picture quality!

Output through the DVI was clearly the way to go.

I won a GF3 with DVI from Ebay for the piddling sum of $1.25 and since I had some time to kill waiting for it to show up, I starting thinking that perhaps there would be a lower power consumption display adapter (that would still do the job) and maybe the ATI drivers offered some extra functionality. A quick search around the net showed the ATI 9600 using a piddling 8 watts of power at idle, perfect for my application!

So to test the DVI output quality & ATI drivers, I installed a Powercolor 9800pro I had purchased new that had spent a few years in my gaming box before being replaced by a X850... downloaded the latest and greatest drivers from ATI... vacuumed out the NV board and drivers.... and here we now are.

Now you know the rest of the story.

You say you had problems with the CCC, right??

Well, I noticed that when I got my 1950XT, it was having problems as well. I had to install .net 2.0 1st, then the drivers that came on the cd and after that I could install the ones from ATI's site, else it just wouldn't work.

What driver version are you using for that 9800??? I do recall that with nVidia drivers, at a certain point, the newest drivers officially supported the hardware, but it didn't quite run on it, as in no image at all.

Have you tried using older drivers?? If you google that filename that was giving the error message, what does it come up with??

The problem is that bot Ati and Nvidia aren't able to develop serious drivers. As I've said I don't like Catalyst Control Center and I prefere the old Control Panel or the only drivers. However if I have picked the point well this don't want to be an *searching for help* thread. :)

It seems, that at least the ATi CCC requires a specific installation procedure (NEVER try to install CCC without having .NET 2.0!), i learned that myself, the hard way.

If you do not like that, go tell ATi so they go change that. And if you've got the time, mobilize as many people as possible to also tell ATi that CCC (or their drivers) suck, and do not forget to collect and present proof for that.

Cause one thing IS true, and that is, that ranting in this specific forum won't do sh*t. Maybe you feel better after bashing ATi here with collective community support (let's all together sing our Anti-ATi songs ;) ), but nothing else will change, next release of CCC will still be a pile of crap.

You enjoy ranting in smaller non-directly-ATI-related communities so much, that you would accept ATi not improving their software, so you can rant a bit more? ;)

No?

Then go tell ATi, so that THEY will know what you think. Maybe it won't do a lot, but it surely would be time better spent than posting here about the problem (without seeking a solution, as the problem has obviously already been resolved by using a GeForce).

wrote on 18.07.07 at 09:09:20:

As I've said I don't like Catalyst Control Center and I prefere the old Control Panel or the only drivers.

Which is what I did first (driver only, no CCC) but the resolution slider only went to 720 x 480.


Quote:

However if I have picked the point well this don't want to be an *searching for help* thread. :)

Yup, or I whould have posted in the "ATI troubleshooting" thread.

I had already figured out the .NET issue and got the CCC working,  problem is when it was working it was crap. It's like they never tested the drivers on an LCD that size or something.

Example- With the graphics properties slider only allowing 720 x 480 max all the CCC control panels are larger than the screen. A third of the controls dissapear off the bottom of the screen along with the "apply" button.

@ultima: The current driver set available for 9800 is  Catalyst™ 6.2.

Although all my last Cards were ATI models, I also must say that the CCC was and is a development that ATI should never have commenced.

The loading times during bootup and again at initialization would be "acceptable", but very painful.
The Memory Footprint however, is a bad joke IMHO.
I've seen complete 3D Games fit into less than that, it's just way out of proportion.

Add to injury, that ATI changed the .NET requirements through the 6.x Driver series (going from requires 1.0, requires 1.1, requires 1.1 but 'may' work with 2.x beta, requires 1.1 but also works mostly with 2.0, requires 2.0 and won't work with 1.x).

Having no ATI card installed currently, it's just amazing how fast the System gets to the finished Desktop again, and how much more Resources are free.

And finally, I could witness again how extremely convinient and nice it is to open Display Properties and have it pop-up ready-to-use before the Finger is off the Mouse Button... That's the way it used to be and the way it should be.

wrote on 18.07.07 at 11:05:18:

Then go tell ATi, so that THEY will know what you think.

Already have in an actual paper letter to AMD in the only way corporations understand.

"To whom it may concern- Until the ATI devision makes an effort to improve driver software I'll no longer purchase any ATI products. The greatest hardware in the world is usless if the drivers are poorly written and unsuitable for my needs. Recently I gave ATI products another chance in a home media center I built and the results were far below reasonable expectations."

One AMD Place
P.O. Box 3453
Sunnyvale, California 94088-3453

(The letter is actually longer than this, but I'm in a hurry for work)

Loss of sales numbers (and money) is the only thing these people understand.

However if you are going to test another time I advise you to try to install older drivers like 6.5 with Control Panel (link below) or older :)
http://www.ngohq.com/home.php?page=Files&go=cat&dwn_cat_id=18&go=giveme&dwn_id=294

wrote on 18.07.07 at 11:57:38:

Having no ATI card installed currently, it's just amazing how fast the System gets to the finished Desktop again, and how much more Resources are free. And finally, I could witness again how extremely convinient and nice it is to open Display Properties and have it pop-up ready-to-use before the Finger is off the Mouse Button... That's the way it used to be and the way it should be.

I must say that I don't seem to have that problem. They seem to have "fixed" the CCC load time thing, as in the time has been decreased by a lot.
My display properties pop up almost immediately also.

I do have to admit that when I still had an nVidia card, the hassle was a lot less then with the ATI cards I owned, which problems only started when I started to use the CCC, which I am currently thinking of removing.

wrote on 18.07.07 at 12:22:03:

However if you are going to test another time I advise you to try to install older drivers like 6.5

I was running 6.2 which is the last "supported" driver for Win2000 & 9800.

wrote on 18.07.07 at 12:36:40:

I must say that I don't seem to have that problem. They seem to have "fixed" the CCC load time thing, as in the time has been decreased by a lot. My display properties pop up almost immediately also.

Not in the 6.2 drivers- The panel takes forever to load and my firewall states it checks "in" a few times over the internet while opening CCC and during boot up.

wrote on 18.07.07 at 13:12:23:

I was running 6.2 which is the last "supported" driver for Win2000 & 9800.

It's the same for the X series but I don't think that X1xxx or X2xxx series are really unsupported. 2k and Xp have the same kernel and in my opinion you can use lastest drivers like the 6.5.

wrote on 18.07.07 at 14:05:28:

It's the same for the X series but I don't think that X1xxx or X2xxx series are really unsupported. 2k and Xp have the same kernel and in my opinion you can use lastest drivers like the 6.5.

I would think so, but when you select "Windows 2000" in the drop down menu, it gives you the 6.2 drivers.

I did notice that the XP drivers are currently at 7.2

The Omega drivers 7.4 work with 2K. Link is here.

http://www.omegadrivers.net/ati/win2k_xp.php

You also don't have to worry about loading up CCC as it doesn't use it.

Hope it helps.

wrote on 18.07.07 at 14:16:35:

I would think so, but when you select "Windows 2000" in the drop down menu, it gives you the 6.2 drivers. I did notice that the XP drivers are currently at 7.2

Uhm, actually I have installed only WinXp Sp2 but I can try to test catalyst 6.5 (imho the best for 9 and X series) and 7.6 (lastest release) under Win2k one of this days. However I don't like Nvidia's download page because I never succed to find the right drivers for my old Nvidia cards (actually #1 riva 128 #3 riva tnt #1 Geforce Sdr #2 Geforce Ddr #1 Geforce 2 GTS #1 Geforce 2 Ultra #1 Geforce 3 Ti 200 #1 Geforce 3 Ti 500 and #1 Geforce 4 Ti 4200) ;D IMHO Ati's download page it's more ordered than Nvidia's.

wrote on 18.07.07 at 14:18:08:

The Omega drivers 7.4 work with 2K. Link is here. http://www.omegadrivers.net/ati/win2k_xp.php You also don't have to worry about loading up CCC as it doesn't use it. Hope it helps.

If I have a hankering to tinker again I'll give them a try.. but I would expect the ATI drivers to work out of the "box".. it is one of the things you pay for when purchasing a product.

Not like ATI is out of business and needs third party driver support  :P

wrote on 18.07.07 at 14:57:14:

If I have a hankering to tinker again I'll give them a try.. but I would expect the ATI drivers to work out of the "box".. it is one of the things you pay for when purchasing a product. Not like ATI is out of business and needs third party driver support  :P

Omega's are mixed drivers. The trick is that both ati and nvidia demand a little search between the various relase of the drivers. If you don't want to or if you haven't time to search you always can to install the omega drivers :)

I haven't gotten into the rest of this and would rather not....

However I am going to bring up something. What if this isn't all ATI's fault but more along the lines of M$? M$ them selves have already, for the most part, stopped supporting the OS. They have also just released one cluster of an OS with Vista. With the DMR requirements so much, it's a pain for companies to get drivers working under Vista as it is and still make it compatible with the Music and movie industries tight license mess.

Nvidia was late putting out drivers for Vista, ATI was, even Creative labs didn't have Vista drivers available till months after the release and most of the older cards will never get updated. I've got a X-Gamers 5.1 card that will never see Vista drivers.

So because ATI or Nvidia do not support Win 2K any longer isn't really all put on that company. I think alot of blame needs to go on M$ and the messed up Vista OS and requirements needed for DMR. I think that's the main problem. It's forcing companies to forgo any Win 2K development and focus on the two OS's that are mainstays in most houses. XP and Vista now.

1) As someone else already pointed out the XP and 2000 kernal are pretty much the same, and generally have the same driver.

2) The NV drivers work fine under the same conditions.

In this case, NV clearly got the job done where ATI did not.

That's cool, not going to argue the point as I have nothing to go on with Nvidia anyway. Don't have any of their cards to base support off of.  

Just giving out some points, that's all.

No worries-

I have piles of NV, ATI and 3dfx boards (and some S3, Matrox, Intel and a few really off brands) l so have lots of time in installing and benching ;-)

i think you need catalyst 5.6 , i remember a driver specifically stated in the readme , that call of duty would not work with  releases beyond that driver period

call of duty (Quake 3 engine )

sorry can`t remember the exact driver

just like the radeon ddr won`t run its original demos with newer radeon drivers

wrote on 18.07.07 at 14:56:59:

Uhm, actually I have installed only WinXp Sp2 but I can try to test catalyst 6.5 (imho the best for 9 and X series) and 7.6 (lastest release) under Win2k one of this days.

Uhm that's incorrect. As I've said in my first post in this thread,

wrote on 17.07.07 at 08:24:53:

With my X800 Agp I have had some problems of artifacts and I have decided to buy a X1950 Pro. Later I've discovered that with Catalyst less recent than 5.7 It was all ok.

The best drivers for Radeon cards 9/x series are in Catalyst 5.6 release and not in Catalyst 6.5 release that also have caused me some problems :P ;D Sadly Ati men have deleted all relases before Catalyst 6.x ::)

Here you can find the right release for win2k with mighty control panel 8)
http://www.hwupgrade.it/software_dl2.php?id=2329&url=1&t=MTE4NDg0NjQ4OQ==

@Gary - you are correct.

I haven't used 'standard' ATI drivers for AGES now...

...never liked them as:

1) Performance is below 'par' for what you'd expect from (whichever) ATI card you're using...

2) ATI CCC - WTF were they thinking?

3) Buggy, buggy, buggy!

Thankfully there's the Omega drivers which DO WORK!

And:

1) Excellent performance!

2) Old control panel

3) Hacks and patches eliminate bugs!

But it's also true that both ATI and nVidia should spend more time testing drivers as well...

Hmmm..

I don't want to bring the old discussion in this thread up, but I must admit: ATI has no sense for drivers or customer support either !

Two weeks ago I had the option to buy two 3870 cards for a very interesting price  :) before that I used a single 8800GTS640, as gary said NV cards are really easy to use: Put it in, install the driver and enjoy your new piece of hardware..... but hell, not that thing with ATI  ::)
I don't want to discuss the whole thing, I just want to reduce the pressure in my head created by these cards, if someone have a problem with that, don't read any further than this point !

Before I bought the cards, I was looking for some crossfire benchmarks, cause a single 3870 made no sense cause it's not even faster than my old 8800. Good, after some readings I must say for that price it would be interesting to see how this cards will perform, so i bought them. My system was already up to date to be a good home for the cards (X38 Mobo with 2xPCI-E 2.0 @16-Lanes each).
But the first thing I was worried about was the question about the internal crossfire bridges: Do I have to use only one or both of the bridges  ??? At this point, there is no clear instruction in one of the manuals or a usefull hint either... so it tested both configurations with benchmarks, cause there isn't any difference there are now both connectors in use  :P
At this point I'm going a bit away from my machine and need to talk about another ATI thing thats really goint to bring my head to boil.... the ATI support. Yes there is a ATI Forum, but it is the most useless support thing i've ever seen from such a big company than ATI is. Why ? It doesn't matter what you ask or write in there, you never will get any support from an ATI technican, cause there isn't a support around there  :(
So back to my system: Cards are in, NV driver uninstalled and I'm going to install the ATI Catalyst 7.11 Drivers, everythings fine besides two reboots I have to do... but what the hell happened to my multi monitor configuration ? First problem: If you're going to enable CF the cards are just able to drive one monitor, cause this is a technical restriction which is clearly described in the manual at this point its my fault. So every time i want to use both screens I have to disable CF.... fine.
So make the best of this situation: CCC provides a profile manager, so the easiest way (and the one ATI tells you in the CCC help is the best) is to use two different profiles:
- CF disabled with both screens
- CF enabled with one screen
but hey ? it isn't working  >:( everytime I'm switching to CF enable it kills the configuration for the second screen out of all profiles, and then CF isn't yet available until i reboot the machine.... if I'm doing all the steps manually it works but not over the profile manager....DAMN  >:( and whats that ? the driver isn't able to drive my second screen in the way i want it: resolution and the normal things are all ok and running, but why isn't the driver just like the NV one able to stretch the background picture correctly for the different resolutions of my screens ? It's a small problem, but IT SUCKS !
So ok, Desktop up and running with some restrictions  ::)

But what about the gaming performance ?
Ok going to start Crysis: HELL WHAT'S THAT ? Everything is flickering, there are some missing textures and the water is wobbling like a drunken bastard, never seen this effects on my 8800  :o AH OK, there's a fixed driver around, just like the one i've already installed it is called "Catalyst 7.11" bit confused about that i tryied to install it.... hmmm situation is still the same.... ok another approach, kill all the ati drivers and apps and reinstall the fixed driver again. ok situation is better but still not as good as with an NV driver.... but crysis isn't the only one game i want to play... let's go and play CoD4 :) (really like that game !), but hey there's no performance gain if I enable/disable CF... hmmmm is the second card really up and running ? Don't know yet cause there isn't something in the driver which shows you which card is at which load in use.... GPU-Z has still some problems detecting an active CF configuration.... so i tested with HL2EP2 and the second card seems to be up and running due to a 80% peformance gain in source engine based games.... good.

so here I am now... got a running 3870 CF setup which runs almost ok (not fine, but ok) in most of the games.
I have some restrictions using my desktop for work due to technical restrictions and malfunctions in the driver.... i can live with that for the moment but I'm trying to fix that by using an additional graphics adapter..... don't know if this would work because I'm still not having an answer from the ATI support  ::)
What about the future ? Yesterday the Catalyst 7.12 came out..... i just read the release notes and I must say "WHAT THE crappity smack IS ATI DOING FOR THE LAST MONTHS ???" there are NO performance improvements, not a single one of the known heavy issues are fixed and no support for actual games either..... sry this is really annoying !  >:(

I'm sry but AMD/ATI isn't in a good position this moment. AMD is loosing customers due to delays and (performance-)problems with the phenom. ATI is going to fall back ways behind NV just because the drivers and support is so bad (and it really is kind of horrible)....
Sometimes I'm just thinking "Why aren't you going for a NV card ?", norries I'm not going to sell my 3870 in the next time, cause I just have a little hope that things become better in Spring when ATI will release some brand new driver models..... but is this really coming up ? are my problems solved ? I don't know but this experience leaves a bad taste in my mind......

ok I'm ending now... thanks that I can bring down this boring story here and thanks for your tolerance (also because my english is bad as hell :D )

edit: WTF ? this is all i received on my support ticket:

Quote:

Dear AMD Customer, This is an Auto-Response based on the fields you selected when submitting your Ticket. Our Auto-Responses resolve most of our customer’s queries. Please try the suggestions below in order to resolve the issue you are facing. To respond to your ticket, visit http://support.ati.com and login to “My Support.” AMD strives to continually improve our products and we invite you to tell us how. If you wish to send us a Feature Request that you believe will enhance our current line of products, please take the time to submit your feedback. This program is intended to gather feedback for Feature Requests and not to solicit regular support inquiries. You must be registered and signed in to access our ticket submission form. If you are already signed in, proceed to Catalyst Crew feedback Please note: We do not respond to all support inquires. We will only be responded to if we require additional information. Thank you for choosing AMD! AMD Global Customer Care for ATI products

NOT THAT WAY !!! I just reopened the ticket with some nice additonal comment  ;)

I just yesterday had to ditch my official ATI Catalyst and replace it with an OmegaDrivers alternative.

ATI itself states that the last official Catalyst for Win2000 is 6.2 - compatible only upto X850.

Having used several 7.x WinXP Drivers without any problems so far, I intended to continue that route, but ATI has now blocked Win2000 compatibility.

Needless to say, I'm using Omega 7.10 now and obviously it works like a champ.
I'll grab Crysis the next days, install the unofficial Win2000 Patch for it and move along.
Until then, I'll continue playing Bioshock, with an OS that supposedly doesn't support it and with a Driver that supposedly doesn't run on my Hardware and OS :P

I just hate it when more and more inferior OS'es superseed good old ones, and the Driver teams jump on that same rotten train. ATI really used to be better at that, IMHO they lost track when they jumped on the .NET wagon.
150MB RAM lost and 10s longer boot time just to open a shiny Applet that gives less Options and Tweaks for a 384Mio Transistor Feature-Monster than an average 3dfx Driver for a ~10 year old Voodoo3.

wrote on 30.12.07 at 14:07:34:

ATI itself states that the last official Catalyst for Win2000 is 6.2 - compatible only upto X850.

Which is rather odd since Win2000 and XP are more or less the same core.

Credit where credit is due- Nvidia still supports* Win9x up to the 7 series** G-force boards.

* Your milage may vary.

** 6 series via the Nvidia portal, 7 series via official partner site if you know where to look!

Hmmm hate to admit it since I'm a huge ATI/AMD fan but yeah seeing that I'm also having to use Omega drivers on the X1950 Pro card I bought in order to play WoW for some damn reason is irritating and not at all reassuring by any means.

I do hope they turn things around soon though, lack of competition in any environment only spells doom for the rest of us (not saying that they'll go under or anything but.... ).

Hope you get it worked out Range.

Jand.

For those of you using nVidia cards - there are NEW OMEGA drivers released for them as well (very recently!) ;)

..had to revert to 7.11 (from 7.12) on my x1950pro agp-with 7.12,when I opened more than 1 tab of http://witcher.wikia.com/ ,opera/firefox would consume 100% of cpu and make the system very slow.going one version back has fixed the problem.

daamit.

7.12 - tried what you said and it works fine for me...

However the x1950pro agp are known to have issues...

as I said,I have been experiencing weird minor issues with this card ever since I have bough it-issues with streaming videos,issues with overlay rendering,now this stuff with browsers.all very minor,all (quite) fixable,but nevertheless,they are still there.

on the other hand,bioshock performance seems to have improved :)

the witcher wikia weirdness is fixed with 8.1 :)

Seems the 7.12 and 8.1 also have a bug that causes color corruption (folks noting Hyperlinks in wrong colors etc.) when using HD38xx Cards.

Those should be fixed but custumer support reportedly advised to simply use the old 7.11 Drivers - not the way to go when people buy the latest hardware for the latest game...

(still I'm playing Crysis on High Detail under Win2000 on the trusty old X1900XT *g*)

I'm very happy with the 8.1 due to the new Multimonitor feature in it :D

As I can see the bug with the red text is someway based on the Cleartype feature. But I actually don't have this bug under WinVista   :)

The 8.1 drivers fixed almost all the issues that I was having with both AGP cards I'm using (X850 Pro and the X1950 Pro). Haven't had any issues with them as of yet so I'm pleased.

AND AGAIN  >:(

just updated my drivers from 8.1 to 8.2 (uninstalled all things with ATI Uninstall Tool before...)... what happend ? after i had some strange freezes with my system (normally runs absolutely stable !) i wonder...
But I've not yet taken a look to the CCC... till 15 minutes ago... I've seen that there's no CF active yet and the Crossfire Option in the CCC was completely gone...
The Windows Device Manager told me that my second card isn't able to load the driver and reported a Code 43 error message...whatever. I tried to uninstall the 8.2 with the ATI Setup itself and reinstall the old 8.1 again.... nothing happend cause i wasn't able to clean the 8.2 out of my system. So i bought the Drivercleaner (a wonderfull piece of software I have to admit !), cleaned everything up and rebooted my system. Windows shown up in 800x600 and searched for a matching driver... and didn't found one, very fine  ::) so I was able to reinstall 8.1 again.... BUT: during the setup both screens went black (not standby) and I can't see anything for minutes  :o I just remembered, that at the end of the setup you can hit enter twice to acknowledge the message to reboot your system again... so absolutely blind i hitted enter twice and the system rebooted well... and what is now ? EVERYTHING RUNS FINE ! CF IS BACK, CODE 43 ERROR IS GONE.... WHAT A PIECE OF CRAP AGAIN FROM ATI  >:(

no problem with 8.2 on my x1950pro agp-not even with Overlay Rendering..r9550 and x1650pro agp are not complaining either.as for the main rig,x1950xtx is still on 8.1,'cause my new motherboard will be arriving in 3 days so I'll be reinstalling xp anyway..

i'm still happy having no issues with Catalyst 7.3

hmm downloaded them but haven't installed them as of yet. 8.1 seem to be working ok for me still so haven't wanted to tempt fate yet.  :P

レイレイ wrote on 18.02.08 at 22:31:54:

i'm still happy having no issues with Catalyst 7.3

not a good idea with a pair of 3870s  :-?

OutOfRange wrote on 19.02.08 at 21:39:19:

レイレイ wrote on 18.02.08 at 22:31:54: i'm still happy having no issues with Catalyst 7.3 not a good idea with a pair of 3870s  :-?

well with a x850gt I really have no choice

OK I have this rig:e4300, radeon 9800pro....
and when I'm playing Hidden and dangerous 2 It crashes everytime (sometimes after ½hour and some times after minute). It do crash on other games sometimes and rarely at desktop. so I think that I don't have decent driver for this good old card of mine.
so what would be the best drivers for 9800pro, currently I have catlyst 6.12

Being that it's a 9800, I wouldn't think you'd have any problems with the new drivers although I could be wrong (at version 8.2 now). Most of the issues with the new drivers coming out are for the X2XXX/X3XXX series or any of the PCIe to AGP ported cards.

Make sure the current game patches are installed as well. There might be known issues with the game that have been patched.

I've been using CAT 8.1 with my Radeon 9700Pro.

Haven't tried 8.2 yet though...

..back to 8.1-hitman blood money is unable to set FSAA correctly with 8.2 (no matter the selection,you dont get any FSAA at all) ::)

well some times when I tried catalyst 7.x drivers and start istall them, hte program said that 9800 is not supported. but now I installed 8.2 drivers and they works fine + got 2 free games from valve. Now thats I call custumor care  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Mansfield wrote on 24.02.08 at 09:13:29:

Now thats I call custumor care  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Don't tell that to all the AGP users, who waited over half a year till a new driver for their cards came out  :( and then there's the horrible moderated ati board and the hopeless amd support  >:(

Mansfield wrote on 24.02.08 at 09:13:29:

Now thats I call custumor care  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

More like a bribe.

Quote:

got 2 free games from valve

WTF? How did ya' do that? :o

The newer Catalyst Versions come with integreated Steam Client which also includes Half-Life 2: Lost Coast and Half-Life 2: Deathmatch. (At the moment I just think that Lost Coast was freeware everytime ?!  ;) or does it need HL2 ?).

But it's integreated a bit stupid into the driver installer, cause it even wants to uninstall Steam when it's just on your computer... like everything from ATI it just feels a bit unfinished and not well made  :-/

ps47 wrote on 24.02.08 at 03:51:05:

..back to 8.1-hitman blood money is unable to set FSAA correctly with 8.2 (no matter the selection,you dont get any FSAA at all) ::)

I take this back-I had conflicting settings in ccc.it always amazes me how dumb can I get (sometimes) ::)

so no problems with x1950pro agp (and x1950xtx pci-e) with the latest 8.x drivers.oh,and did I mention they fixed thief2 fog (after all those years)? ati,I love you ;D

First time since I have the 3870 ones, I'm sort of "happy"  :-?

Just played HL2 Cinematic Mod and I'm absolutely surprised: It runs quite fine  ::) 8-)

They fixed the fog in Thief 2? Not to go off subject here, but did you ever play the Thief mod for UT called Thievery? It's kind of cool but you need a bunch of people to play it. Since it's still very playable on the 3dfx cards, I can through some of the Thief links up in there. Tons of mods for it.

Anyhow, I haven't had any problems with the 8.3 drivers at all. Just gaming for the most part. Most of them are newer games and WoW has been taking up quit a bit of my gaming time so.. (shouldn't have ever started playing it).  :P

never played it,but I'm aware of it-I lurk around ttlg forums as well (even submitted a few system shock/thief related fixes)..

For those of you with problems getting AGP to work, try these:

http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&tld=&task=knowledge&questionID=31542

Hmmm, haven't had any problems since 8.1 with both of the AGP cards I have (X1950 Pro, X850 Pro). I know when I installed the hotfix for 8.1 that fixed everything, I had to download and install the CCC control panel seperately from the hotfix as it's only the drivers and basic software (15 megs compared to the normal 34 megs) so might have to do the same with these if you plan on installing them.

I only ever use the drivers and ATI tray tool. ;)

Never bothered with the bloatware "Catalyst CR@P-TROLL Centre" ::)

LOL! ;D

paulpsomiadis wrote on 24.03.08 at 22:49:25:

For those of you with problems getting AGP to work, try these: http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&tld=&task=knowledge&questionID=31542

yup,I can confirm,you wont get a hd2600 agp running unless you install those (did some remote troubleshooting a few minutes ago).not needed for the x1000 agp line,it would seem..

..I have just found a pretty serious bug-on my x1950pro agp,opengl is half broken wih cat7.12 and higher.most opengl games display weird symptoms such as flickering/twitching of textures,spikey polygons,black areas,shaky screen.observed on quake4 and homeworld cataclysm (quake3 seems to work fine).no problems on cat7.11 and older.

can someone confirm this?


edit: using opengl from the 7.11 driver with cat8.3 installed kills this bug.