Hello,

Well, taking into accout the information and advices from Komponent and by reading the mod that the Italian dude did it ( on forumzone.it) , I decided to try myself this mod.
Because a Skt.939 board  and a Venice 3500+ CPU were layng around, I decided to try the mod on this platform.

Test System:
Athlon 64 3500+ - Skt.939
Mobo: MSI K8T Neo2-F V2.0
Voodoo5 5500 AGP
512 DDR RAM ( only 266 MHz FSB )
40Gb HDD
Enermax PSU


So, I decided not to Modifiy the AGP Slot on the Motherboard – Reason: if the Mobo get burned, i can change it any time on warranty  8)
So that the next step was to cut the noch on the Voodoo5 card.
After a closer look an the AGP pinout, the pins from 42 to 44 came into discussion.

Pin            Side A           Side B

42       Reserved            3.3Vaux       
43       Ground            Ground       
44       Reserved            Reserved
     
After a closer look at the voodoo5 card, at these pins, I found out that:

Pins 42 ( both sides ) and 44 are not connected. :P
Pins 43 are connected to ground – this was confirmed by measuring them !
Well for the pin 43 there is a soldering point, witch is for every situation available. ( I thought that in the worst case when the card don’t start in the skt.939 Mobo, remains  the possibility to rescue the voodoo board by sodering this points to ground – luckely this step was not necessary )

The cutting operation mus be done with very much attention and patience !
Don’t hurry up ! Take care to eliminate every metal pieces and any rest that can later cause a electrical shortcut.
You will need the following Tools:

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/7655/p1010014em7.jpg

In the Foto you can see the modified card:

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/1581/p1010019xi7.jpg

The area for Pins 42,43 and 44 was cuted. Unfortunately I was afraid to cut deeper in the card, in order not to damage some traces.
This lead to the following problem: the card did not stay very well in the AGP Slot.
This is a problem that should be fixed . ( The AGP Slot on the Mobo can be slightly modifyed….)
So, after this operation, I tried to start the card in my old Epox 8K5A2 board with universal slot. The card started without problems… it was a very happy moment for me  ;D . my voodoo card was alive !
Then, the Skt 939 Board must be prepare for the voodoo5.
I started the Mobo with an agp4x card. Then the AGP Voltage in Bios was modified to 1.85 Volts, and the AGP to AGP4x. ( This settings remains available with the moded Voodoo5 card ;D! )

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4927/p1010001ta2.jpg

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/6071/p1010003yq7.jpg

Then I pluged the voodoo5 card into the Mobo and …..
The card started !!!!

It was for me a glorios moment.
See the pictures.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8534/p1010004ve9.jpg

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1954/p1010021am3.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2876/dovada1be8.jpg

The board is running from about 24 hours – continuously. No freeze, no BSOD…
The K8T800Pro is not hot; no components on the Voodoo board or on the Mobo are excessively hot…everything seems to work fine.
But…

3dmark2001 is hangig up in dual mode.
In single mode there is o problem !

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5100/singelchipsl9.jpg

I manage to start some games:

Call of Duty – no problems.
Start Treck Armadia – no problems. Even 4xFSAA is working well.
Edie Hard – Nakatomi Platza – no Problems.
Flatout2 – no Problems.
The Benchmark "Final Reality" also run without Problems.

Two Remarks:

1. I did not supply the Pin A34 with 3.3Volts like the italian dude did it – I don't agreed with this. Even the card is not rock stable in all application, I’m sure that Komponent will come with a solution.
I now, that the VSA100 must now operate with 1.5Volt signals.( the AVR Pins Problems..) Now they are probably working still with 3.3V signalling.
2.I did not connect the Pin2 from the Voodoo card on ground. ( TYPEDET ).

Many thanks to Komponent for his advices / informations and to the Italian dude ( ciacara ).
With theyr support / ideas / advices  this Projekt was possible.

Please, fell free to comment my experiment.


Regards.
Radu.

Grats man. Since you got the card working without 3.3v I got a sence you will finally get through freezing and other drawbacks and you might get finally a voodoo 5 on 1.5v agp :)

Excellent Radu!!! :)

ps. Beware. I had my V5 5500 AGP with notch AGP4x working without problems under Abit IS7-G until the card died three month later.  

Oscar

wrote on 24.07.07 at 20:52:32:

The board is running from about 24 hours – continuously. No freeze, no BSOD… The K8T800Pro is not hot; no components on the Voodoo board or on the Mobo are excessively hot…everything seems to work fine. But… 3dmark2001 is hangig up in dual mode. In single mode there is o problem ! I manage to start some games: Call of Duty – no problems. Start Treck Armadia – no problems. Even 4xFSAA is working well. Edie Hard – Nakatomi Platza – no Problems. Flatout2 – no Problems. The Benchmark "Final Reality" also run without Problems.

Gratz on getting the card running man. Very nice to see.

I do have a question about the above statement though, wouldn't the locking up in dual mode be the same reason why the 4500's could run with a 1.5v in the first place and not the v5's because of something to do with the agp bridge chip or something? I'm just asking because if it was this semi simple of an issue to do I don't know why this hasn't been done more on a regular basis that's all.

I love the seeing the work done, don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to understand it as you go that's all.

The VSA-100 is a native 1.5 volt part (aside from some poor PowerColor boards that run at 3.3), something about the Voodoo5 design is not compatible though.

It is to do with the SLI setup, not the chip itself.

So it works - but effectively it's only in single mode...which is just like a Voodoo 4. :-/

Does anyone know why the V5 SLI setup is flakey at 1.5V? ???

Could it be as simple as the fact that each chip requires 1.5V on it's own - and an overall 1.5V is not enough to power both VSA's. ???

wrote on 25.07.07 at 00:42:09:

So it works - but effectively it's only in single mode...which is just like a Voodoo 4. :-/

Soemething to consider- The area where the notch is could have something that is required for dual chip operation.

There is a modding thread started by Hank on the Italian board where he indicated that there were some important traces in the area that was sliced.

The question had been brought up in regards of a 5500 being modded for AGPx4.

@Osckar: did u have the same Problems in dual mode ?
Pls. Tell us about your experience.

It can be something about the Voodoo5 design that is not 100% compatible ... I'm affraid that it's also a problem with AGP signaling but i duno how to read these signals without an osciloscope  ;)
It's interresting that the card is rock stable in single mode.
Could these be a reason why 3dfx release only the voodoo4 for AGP4x ? ( single chip )
In dual mode the 3dMark2001 freeze at the end of the second test, always there..return an device failure error.

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2569/3dmark2001jg9.jpg

I tried also to reduce the frecvency of both VSA card to 100MHz ( like one of the Gary's Prototype ) but the test still freeze at this point.
Also tried different drivers, the best remains the Amigamerlin driver. The drivers afaik supports the AGP4x, so there should be no problem.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/392/dovada2jl2.jpg

But check this out.

Lavalys find the both VSA chips:
One it's AGP4x, and enabled, the other remains at AGP1X, and disabled.

These could be the reason ?

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/200/firstlavalis4xdl8.jpg

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/152/secondlavalis1xhi1.jpg

One more thing: Can somebody tell me how to read the strapinfo bits ? One of these must be changed for properly AGP4x function.

The Powerstrip Software it's unable to tell the actual AGP transfer rate !

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/3777/powerstripqv3.jpg

If somebody has ideas / improvments proposal , i can put them in practice on this card .
Just feel free to tell what to try  ;)
I'm sure that we are on the right way, and now it's only a problem of time until these compatibility and stability issues are fixed.

One more think: The grounden pins that i cut out to realize the AGP4x noch, can be connected to the ground. Maybe these will make the card stable again. But first i will try again the card in my Epox Mobo, with Universal AGP Slot. If there is everything ok, then this is not the reason.
Im on vacancy now, and i luckely have a lot of time to experiment this mod  ;D

a short movies on yotube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWemWC-Vnok


Regards.
Radu.

ok i'm not as smart as some of you hear but i do want to help and also understand as much as possible, so i have a few question's ::)

1) i thought that the reason the multi gpu cards wouldnt work was cause agp standard 2.0 didnt support them and that standard 3.0 that came out with 8x agp did?

2) If above is true to any extent then if a unerversal card which is 3.0 compliant 1x2x4x8x shows a setting of 1x2x4x 1.5 volt in bios then you would be using the 2.0 standard, which would mean it should show something like 4x8x in the bios which should be the 3.0 standard.

3) OK so now im reaching, so here goes, could it be that the 4500agp worked at 4x 1.5volt because it was a single gpu and met the 2.0 standard but the 5500 being a multi gpu could not meet the standard of 2.0 and now it could meet the standard of 3.0 but may need the 3.3 volts to be stable.

4) one more thing, it seems in the unerversal slots that support 3.0 and of course 2.0 make the distinction with a3 and a11 i think it is, so i'm just wondering if that needs to be looked at for both vsa's to work right.

Hope this helps

http://www.lostcircuits.com/video/asus_v9280s/3.shtml

Also this

How does the mainboard recognize the AGP port mode? The system powers up and goes through POST. Then the graphics card and the mainboard that comply with Universal AGP 3.0 and Universal AGP 1.5V 3.0 specs determine the port mode by means of specific contacts on the AGP connector. It is "GC_DET#" contact (Pin #A3), which detects graphics card's ability to work in AGP 3.0 mode (if the card supports AGP 3.0 or Universal AGP 3.0, this contact is connected to the common wire, otherwise it's not connected to anything). The second one is "MB_DET#" contact (Pin #A11), which detects mainboard's ability to work in AGP 3.0 mode (if the mainboard supports AGP 3.0 or Universal AGP 3.0, this contact, like GC_DET#, should be connected to the common wire, otherwise it's not connected to anything).

So, if the both contacts are "grounded" in the graphics card and mainboard, they are checked and then AGP 3.0 is turned on during POST, otherwise - AGP 2.0. Later on, when the system is at work, you can't change the port mode, only the data-transfer rate can be set at either 4x or 8x for AGP 3.0 and 1x, 2x or 4x for AGP 2.0.

Quote:

@Osckar: did u have the same Problems in dual mode ? Pls. Tell us about your experience.

Check it
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8265718

Here you can see like my V5 5500 AGP4X worked with 2 VSA-100.

ps. I think is better to buy an AGP RISER AGP4x - AGP1x. So you don't need to modify the card. ;)
ps2. Would help a motherboard to able to handle  AGP Voltage more high than 2V?

Oscar

A closer look at Pins #3 and #11.
They are not connected, so that means AGP 2.0 !

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/366/a3a11qt6.jpg

In the Pictures that i post before  u can see that the BIOS ,detect the AGP 2.0 standard !

@Oscar: I need to take a closer look at the APG4x noch area on your Voodoo5 card  ;)
If a higher voltage will bring something, i can't say... btw. i did not find a software that is able to tell me some values about the AGP Signaling voltages :) ( an online data aquisition software  - dunno if something like this exist anyway but would be nice..)
Yes, with an AGP riser will be better and easyer ..but i did not find one here in my Country.

more replies at:
www.3dfxzone.it/enboard/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6626


EXCELLENT WORK!! i really hope u can get SLI mode (dual)

i guess u should supply the Pin A34 with 3.3Volts.....

but i would connect
pin A43 and B43 to Ground Ground
and B42 to 3.3Vaux


BYE!

wrote on 24.07.07 at 20:52:32:

Hello, Well, taking into accout the information and advices from Komponent and by reading the mod that the Italian dude did it ( on forumzone.it) , I decided to try myself this mod. [...] Many thanks to Komponent for his advices / informations and to the Italian dude ( ciacara ). With theyr support / ideas / advices  this Projekt was possible. Please, fell free to comment my experiment. Regards. Radu.

Hey, Radu, great project! Keep it up!
But, huh... I failed to see how was I ever of any help to your work; I wish I had, but realy there are absolutely no credits here for myself; but you are welcomed anyway, he-he...
Please keep us up to the news regarding your projects.
Respect!

@ Komponent and @ All 3dfx Fans:

Every information that it's comming from you bring us near to our common Goal:

[glb]"The 3dfx Hardware has to live on."[/glb]

That's why we are here.

Thank you all for your support my Friends.

Radu.

@Radu,

V5-5500 AGP4x
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8071/agp4xnotchij2.th.jpg

Check it for high size.
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8071/agp4xnotchij2.jpg

Oscar

Thanks Osckar !

Well it seems that the Pin A2 is connected ! ( TYPEDET - ground )
The Pins #3 and #11 are also not connected . ( AGP 2.0 Specifications ).

Ill take a closer look at the Pins tomorow.... ;)

P.S. Did your card worked until she died with normal AGP Voltage ( 1.5 Volt ) ?

By comparing the two cards, AGP4x with AGP2x i notice that the Voltage Regulator Area is different.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/7438/diferentavoltageregulateq7.jpg

Top:      Voodoo5 AGP2x - notice the 2 big caps, 2 big Coils ...
Bottom: Voodoo5 AGP4x - only one big cap, one coil...
All Voodoo5 AGP4x cards, with SDRAM or SGRAM are made only in this configuration. ( on Gary's Page you will find more examples ).
Why is this difference in this area ? Any ideas ?

The voodoo5 5500 AGP2x and AGP4x uses the same BIOS file ?

Regards.
Radu.

and the story goes on...

Today i tried more...

1. Evilking Voodoo4 card.

First of all, i start with my Voodoo4 Evilking card.
Everybody knows that the card, even if has an AGP4x noch, it's still uses 3.3Volts signals.
In Bios can be only selected the AGP1x and AGP2x; The Epox 8K5A2 board has the hardware monitoring that confirmed to me the AGP Voltage of approx 3.3Volts.

After i study the card, i saw that the A2 pin seems to be connected.... after a check with multimeter, it result that there is no connection between Pin A2 and ground.
So that i came to the ideea to connect the Pin A2 to the ground.
Then  i pluged the card again in the AGP Slot, and start the system. The Voltage Monitroing tells me the AGP Voltage of 1.5Volts.
In Bios the Option AGP4x can be choosen.
System was tested at 1.5Volts, and everything was Ok. No freeze, no BSOD.

So that i came to this modding accidentally, and now with this change these cards can be used safely into an AGP4x board.  ;)

2. Voodoo5 5500 - modifyed card.

The Pins 43 that were cuted out onto the graphics board, were ground connected. In order to check the card stability into  the AGP Universal board, i start several test .. everything was OK. No Problems at all, also dual chips work perfect. These test was done in order to see if there is necesary a ground connection into the cuted area.

The Pin 45 from the AGP Slot ( AGP1x and AGP2x ) is connected to VCC 3.3.
Starting with AGP4x, this Pin is no more available. ( KEY )

The Voodoo4 Evilcard has not the Pin 45.
So that my next ideea was to isolate these Pins on AGP Slot of my Epox 85KA2 board. So i did it.
The Pin A2 was connected to ground in order to supply the card with 1.5Volts.
The sistem did not start. Only some beeps...grrrr >:(
Then i installed another card in sistem, in order to see the AGP Voltage and if the Voodoo cards is recognized into the Device List.
The AGP Voltage shown was 1.5Volts, according to the mobo hardware monitor.
But, in Windows, the voodoo5 cards was not recognized.
So that, it seems, that the 1.5Volts, provided from the motheboard is not enough...
There must be a way to force the card to use the 1.5Volt mode.

In the VSA Databook are described the resistor networks that are responsible for the AGP Voltage reference.
One is for 1.5Volt, and one for 3.3Volts. Like Komponent says the simply way is to transform the second voltage network ( of 3.3Volts) into the first. ( 1.5Volts ).

1.5 Voltage reference consist of one resistor network.

1. a 210 ohm resistor conected to VDDQ
2. a 158 ohm resistor connected to ground
3. one 0.1 microF capacitor

3.3 Voltage reference consist of two resistor network.

Firs RC network.
1. a 210 ohm resistor conected to VDDQ
2. a 158 ohm resistor connected to ground
Second RC network.
4. a 210 ohm resistor in paralel with a 560pf capacitor
5. a 158 ohm resistor in paralel with a 560pf capacitor

so that the second RC network must be eliminated ( Position 4 and 5 ) and the 0.1 microF capacitor must be inserted. ( Postion 3 ).
Then it should work @1.5Volts.
Unfortunately i didn't locate yet these components on my Voodoo5 board but i'm keep searching... ::)

Br.
Radu.

Found something ;):

Under each VSA chips from Voodoo5 5500 are located the following resistance:

32A means - 210 ohm - connected on to VDDQ.
20A menas - 158 ohm - connected to ground.
There is also another Resistance marked 472 (47,2 Kohm )  and one capacitor.

This Area is marked in the Picture !

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3396/rcvk9.jpg

These components are also on Voodoo4 from 3dfx and Evilking. On the Voodoo5 AGP4x Prototypes ( 5000 and 5500 ) this voltage network is also present.
This is the 1.55V Voltage reference.
But where is the 3.3Voltage reference voltage network...i search on every card, but these components are to find  only once !
I expected to find them twice, for the second network...thats wierd..

Hey
Congrats and good work m14radu !

Btw., did u manage to run stable the Voodoo5 5500 ? i mean in dual chip mode .

How the Project it's running ?
What's the Status ?

Please don't give up, and keep up the good work !
I hope that somebody on this forum will provide you the answers to your questions !

I found amazing that somebody take the such a risk and do something like this !

RESPECT !
;)

Johnny

nothing new until now....
Still tryng to identify the both voltage network... >:(
but don't worry, there is no reason to give up !
;)
Br.
Radu.

wrote on 26.07.07 at 11:32:47:

[...] Like Komponent says the simply way is to transform the second voltage network ( of 3.3Volts) into the first. ( 1.5Volts ). [...]

Great to see that you are making new progress on your project; I feel that you will have a big success.
... But the statement that you mentioned as orriginating from myself is only partialy reproducted and it can lead to confussion this way, no offence.
The things that I realy said are that: There are infos that on the Voodoo5 5500 PCB's design, the signaling voltage refferences for 1.5V and 3.3V might be shortened (pardon my bad English, dudes; if the word is wrong, the meaning is that one trace dirrectly connects those two points). If so, then after strapping the GPU's TYPEDET pin to the ground with a resistor (and the AGP's A2 pin too along), the VSA100 will select the 1.5V signaling mode and so the network for the 3.3V voltage refference could be used for the 1.5V too, after moddifying it, ofcourse. But that is true ONLY if there is a short between those two GPU's pins. If not then another approach must be considered.
I am very sorry dudes; I realy wish that I would try to help this great project right now, like soon is not soon enough; and I have tools and skills and I hope knoledge too to offer my contribution, but after working 11 hours in a day at my job, in about arround 40 o Celsius, I am not able to do anything than try to recover for the next work day... I will do my best to try to do a check on the issue of PCB layout next week if the question will not be allready solved yet until then...
Radu, I keep my fingers crossed for you; I hope that we will get again very good news from you.
Almost forgot: Plese check on your PowerColor Voodoo4's PCB if the VDDQ and the VCC 3.3V are connected or not. If there is no short there then you found another great modding solution with the TYPEDET A2 grounding. Else... well... you see my point, it would not be a good ideea to run the card at 1.5V specs. AFAIK, there are two distinct Voodoo4 PCB designs for EvilKing cards, not counting the "L" card. One of them is known to have no compatibility with 1.5V signaling and so with AGP 4x mode and there is an info that on it's PCB the VDDQ and VCC 3.3V are linked; so when running it at 1.5V specs the extra current would get dumped on the circuit... If that is not the case with your PowerColor Voodoo4 card, then you have just provided, again, another working modding sollution for the beneffit of all the 3DFX fans!
Good luck and keep it up!

I'll check the status of the TYPE ( TYPEDET ) Pin at voodoo5.
I do not have an dead voodoo5, otherwise i will take the GPU off to make a better analisys. Have somebody a broken or dead v5 in order to check the status of this Pin ?
Another Problem is to find an soldering point on the PCB for this Pin.
Soldering this Pin to ground directly on the GPU's Die is not the best solution.

It's the Third Pin ( C1 ). See pls the picture.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8149/typefz1.jpg

Radu.

[glb]FOUND ![/glb]
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3219/pinin0.jpg

This Soldering point connect the both TYPEDET Pins from both GPU's together.
There is no connections between this pin and Ground.
So that i connect it to Ground. ( with this red wire )  ;D
The card start without problems. The hardware monitor of my Epox board show 3.3Volt.

Additionaly the A2 was also connected to ground.
But now the card didn't start anymore.

>:(

Did i miss something ?

Today is the day ! I can smeel it in the air !

@Komponent: What you say? The strapping resistor is missing ?

Well, i've done some more tests:

The red wire was replaced with a 100 ohm resistor.  ;D
Pin A2 was connected to ground.

Unfortunately, the card works as before, with 3.3 Volts. The behaviour is the same in both Mobo. ( KT333 and K8T800Pro ).

I did  not find the right soldering point for TYPEDET ?
::)
Then, i tried to reduce the AGP Voltage on K8T800Pro.
Currently is running at 1.85 V.
When changing to 1.75V the card start without problems, but the 3DMark2001 return a device error.
The behaviour is the same in dual and single chip mode.
Maye an increased AGP Voltage will bring also more stability .. i don't know this.

That's all so far...
Keep testing and trying... 3dfx hardware has to live on !

Regards.
Radu.

wrote on 30.07.07 at 17:37:02:

Well, i've done some more tests: The red wire was replaced with a 100 ohm resistor.  ;D Pin A2 was connected to ground. Unfortunately, the card works as before, with 3.3 Volts. The behaviour is the same in both Mobo. ( KT333 and K8T800Pro ). I did  not find the right soldering point for TYPEDET ? ::)

No, no... You found it allright, Radu! I can confirm your discovery 100%.
It is the right soldering point that connects dirrectly to both the VSA100's TYPEDET pins.
May I add that allthough it is not linked to the ground at all on it's default state, it is connected to VCC 3.3V through a 4.7kohm resistor.

Later edit:
Fortunately, I had a dead Voodoo5 and I removed the GPUs with my heat-gun so I could study it's PCB.
I am now also able to confirm that the voltage reference pins of the VSA100s are connected to the same (and the only for both) trace on the Voodoo5 PCB, for each GPU, so they share the circuit. The conclusion is obvious: the card can opperate compatible with only one mode; by default with 3.3V signaling and after the modding that I have in my mind as a 1.5V device only, not like the Voodoo4 that can run in any of both.
I will talk with Radu in private to agree on a way for me to offer my help in this project if he chooses to accept it...
Anyway, it looks like a mod that can be done to fully functional.

yes, they're shorted together (p2, p3) and are also connected to the top end of r37, c33, r36.
im not able to check vsa-100 #2 - the pins are too damaged :/

but as i already said, i think the typedet pin is not the solution cause it is usually only checked by motherboards with agp universal bus....

i think by connecting pin a2 to gnd, we'll force the motherboard to set the signal level to 1,5v -that might be the reason why it does not work with your card....
as you said, on your powercolor it worked to connect a2 to gnd to set the agp voltage to 1,5V and agp 4x. but we know that the v5 has problems with agp 4x mode (due to more than 1 device on the agp bus) and requires agp2x mode...

a good news: my new riser has arrived, i start doing stuff 2morrow!!!111

€dit:
one thing i can try is to connect the a2 pin at my v5 with one vsa-100 chip - it may work cause there's only one device at the agp bus.

some other news....

i tried my riser card and a v5 at a asus a7v8x (kt400) and, like everytime when i try something, it did not work at all.
no post, no beeps, nothing.
i tried 2 v5 cards and both did not work. (even when i had set the agp voltage to 1,8V and the speed to 1x).

but finally, i installed my v5 with only the first vsa-100... and it did work - i get a post!
unfortunatly, my board does not support the agp voltage in the hardware monitor, but i thought it had select 1,5V cause i was also able to choose agp 4x. even more interessting was that the v5 did start up at agp 4x ;)

that means that the v5 supports 1,5V "out of the box", but only when one vsa-100 is installed - i think my motherboard always uses 1,5V  - some boards do that cause they do not check the typedet pin and always run the agp bus at 1,5V.

i will steal a k8t-neo2 motherboard soon and try it again there.

ps:
i used a riser card and did not cut anything in the motherboard or the v5 ;)

€dit:
the power regulator stuff on the right on the v5 changes something to 2,8V - the voltage required by the vsa-100. on the normal v5, many things are secured to avoid damage on the cards - see my thread (in german, very sorry): http://forum.voodooalert.de/thread.php?threadid=11016&threadview=0&hilight=voodoo+and+hei%DFluftpistole&hilightuser=0&page=1

well, in short:
i had bought a v5 where vsa-100 #2 was dead. so i removed it with a hot air fan and it worked again, with only the first vsa-100. i tried to reinstall a second, working vsa-100 by putting it at the position - but it did not work- the pins where too damaged. but the interessting thing is that i forgot to install the atx power supply - but the card did power up for aprox 10 seconds (??)... upon now, i still dont know why it had worked..
later, i removed the second vsa-100 again and the card worked again with no probs ;)
it is a bit slower than a v4...

well, return to topic. what i think is interessting is the chip right over the first agp notch - it is missing on the agp 4x version. it might be very interessting to see what it actualy does.

€dit:
i just remind me that i head somethime ago that the vram on the v5 is directly supplied by the 3,3V of the agp... maybe the vsa-100 are not the problem but the vram?

Very interesting news..
especially that the v5 with only one chip AGP4x able is !
To be sure that the card is working at 1.5Voltage, please connect the A2 Pin to the ground.

I see also the problem that we encounter somewhere in the SLI configuration.

I read your thread on voodooalert.de ( ich lese es einfach täglich  ;D ), and i know the whole story.
Thank you for your contribution on this projekt !

Btw. can somebody tell me witch difference is between the V5 AGP2x and V5 AGP4x bios ?
Strapinfo bits ?
The file Size are the same... ?!?
I flash yesterday the v5 AGP4x bios on my modified v5, and the card did not start anymore.

uhm, i would say the bios is the smallest problem - once we see a pci device listed with 3dfx-mark in the device list, the bios will be the smallest problem.

ok, i connected a2 on my risercard to gnd & installed the riser in my 8k5a2 motherboard.
the single-chip v5 is starting with no problems and reported 1,8V AGP voltage - i dont know why it is so high, but i think the problem is the motherboard - it  has some damaged capacitators.
but, as you already have tested, a normal voodoo 5 will _not_ boot up at 1,5V AGP voltage.
so, i think we can be sure that the problem is the sli configuration with 2 chips on one agp bus.

but: i did not tested the pci.exe - i will try soon....
maybe i will find a device - that would mean that the v5 is initialized correctly.

well, to get a solution we should compare the platine layouts on a v5 agp 4x and a usual v5 to find a difference.

as i already said, a very interessting chip is the one above the first agp notch - it is missing on the v5 agp4x and some v5 prototypes....
it would be interessting to see what it actualy does.


€dit:

those v5 agp 4x, do they run at 1,5V or 3,3V in agp 8x motherboards?

m14radu when you got the voodoo5 working at 4x agp @ 1.5v with one vsa-100 chip, did the card show all 64mbs of ram or just 32mbs? in windows and/or bios post?

In one of the everest pics it shows 32mbs, but what about the bios post?

the v5 bios always shows 64 mb of ram. but in win98, the 3dfx tools report only a single vsa-100 card and 32 mb of ram.

Al 64Mb are aailable.
I u look at the youtube movie, you will see this.

btw, i could not find this small IC on the internet.
Did somebody know what this small ICs dooing ?

kk, how do we continue? i have no idea how to solve that sli problem....

i've got an other idea.
what do u think about plugging a v5 pci in a modern pci 2.3 motherboard and trying to enable 66 mhz transfer mode?

in an other thread on the 3dfxzone.it forum, i've read about pin b49 and disconnect it from the card (with clear type or st. like that).
the other thing that has to be modified are the pci registers - theres is an id that shows capability of 66 mhz transfer mode - that would result in agp1x-speed & for me, this is fast enough for the use in modern pc systems.

Quote:

in an other thread on the 3dfxzone.it forum, i've read about pin b49 and disconnect it from the card (with clear type or st. like that). the other thing that has to be modified are the pci registers - theres is an id that shows capability of 66 mhz transfer mode - that would result in agp1x-speed & for me, this is fast enough for the use in modern pc systems.

Yes, you only need a motherboard with PCI-X. The V5 PCI will work to 66MHz bus pci.

Oscar

hi!

wow, are you sure?
did you already tried out with taping over pin b49 and plugging it into a pci-x board? that would be really cool!

Quote:

wow, are you sure? did you already tried out with taping over pin b49 and plugging it into a pci-x board? that would be really cool!

Yes, I am fully sure! :)

You don't need masked pin49 because it already is disconnected. You only need plug the card and voila... :)
Only is necessary masked pin49 if you are using an AGP2PCI adapter and It must be done on the pci adapter. ;)

Check it:

3DMark2001SE
V5 5500 PCI - PCI-X 66MHz - 3700Points
V5 5500 PCI - PCI 33Mhz - 3000Points
V5 5500 AGP (AGP2PCI modded) - PCI-X 66MHz - 3700Points.

So the PCI-X is the way for Voodoo cards. PCI-X = AGP1x (66MHz).

Oscar

YES! Thats the future for voodoos! ;)

image a v5 pci with this board:
Tyan Tomcat h1000S

woot ^^
forget the 8k5a2 ;)

that is not a bad ideea with PCI-X !
;D
But i stiil remain to  my Projekt; there must be a way to achieve this !
Unfortunately i was very busy last weeks, and the Projekt did not advance anymore... but i hope that next week i will have more time for it.

I still don't find a Datasheet for the missing IC on the V5 AGP4x boards.
I also need a AGP4x Bios, duno where to get it !
???
Br.
Radu.

mh, what do you think about disturbing hank one more time?  :-[

Yeah, we will ask him, but not now...there are still some test to make, and if there is still no result, then .....

I can only rise the VAGP via BIOS to 1.85V.
It's a program that allow me to rise it higher ? I think that at around 2V the VSA will be stable im dualchip mode...
:)
@IceFire: you have PM !

;)

k, it might be interessting how the voodoo 5 5500 agp4x is working....

osckhar, would you please verify the connection of pin A2 to GND on your agp 4x v5?
thanks ;)

k, my mac agp2pci adapter does not work at all... it is only causing a short. the board does not start, even if it fits perfect physically.
the layout of the pci connector does not looks like a pci bus at all..

>:(

i'm sorry, i'm out for the first time. i've got too much work in the next days.

@IceFire,

In a prevoius post, you mention that your damaged Voodoo5 card, with only one VSA, is able to run at AGP4x.
Please do the following experiment, in order to be sure of that: Connect the A2 AGP Pin of your damaged Voodoo5 board to the Ground.
Please keep us informed about the result.

P.S. I have a reason for that.
I modify my voodoo5, and cut the supply to one VSA. ( the same that is damaged on your board ). Unfortunately i was not able to start the board at AGP4x !
I connect the A2 pin to ground, to be sure that the card will get only 1.5V.
Please do the same.
My card don't start if the molex connector is not pluged. But your did this......

yes, a2 is connected& is working with no probs. but i also need the molex connector to power up the board.

i'll make a video soon... witch lanes did u disconnect?

my card did only once powered up when i caused some shorts on the voodoo5 by adding a new vsa-100 over the socked... but many of the pins where damaged and might caused shorts, so i think the power was somehow taken over the agp bus... after i removed the vsa-100, the card still required a connected molex connector.

thanks for the quick answer IceFire.
;)
Fact is:
- on a normal Voodoo5, if the A2 is connected to the Ground, the card did not start .
- on a damaged Voodoo5, ( with no Slave VSA ) if the A2 is connected to the Ground the card work flawless with 1.5V, and AGP4x.It's behave like a Voodoo4.

It leads to the following conclusion:
There is something in the SLI configuration, that is not fully optimized for 1.5V ( AGP4x ).

I think that a closer look to an Voodoo5 AGP4x Prototype will give the right answer to our problem.

Br.
Radu.

Unfortunately i was not able to find an AGP4x BIOS.
@ All 3dfx Collectors: Please dump an AGP4x  BIOS for the Projekt. ;D
Maybe is enought to flash only the AGP4x BIOS on the cutted card...has somebody tryed this ????

The 5500 AGPx4 boards do not run at AGPx4 mode or at 1.5 volts.

Osckar Prototype was not 1.5V ?

wrote on 26.08.07 at 13:07:38:

Osckar Prototype was not 1.5V ?

Nope, all my V5 AGP4x noch are 3.3V.

Oscar

that would mean that a2 is not connected to gnd on the agp 4x board.....
the sli problem is only avaible on the 1,5V mode, so the agp 4x prototypes will give us no solution.

...

???

Did you manage to contact Hank ?
It's the only person who can help us further !
;)

i need again your help, my Friends..
;)
i'm searching for a tool that is able to change the AGP voltage from WinXp.
With this i will be able to find the working threshold for the VSA chip, on my Epox Board witch actualy provide 3.3V and it's unfortunately not adjustable.
::)



Something interessting here ( page 2 ):

http://www.forumzone.it/topic.asp?whichpage=2&Forum_Title=Hardware+e+software+%2D+Discussioni&Topic_Title=OVERVOLT+VOODOO5&CAT_ID=25&FORUM_ID=40&TOPIC_ID=9153

"4) AGP 3.3 voltage is only needed by RAM, in primis. If we think to mount the V5 on a AGP8x board, we could cut off the 1.5v pin (useless) and insert an external power supply to power the card. Where could we insert it? The voltage coming from the agp slot ends up to the mosfet on the lower right of the V5, and powers the RAM through internal tracks (connections are not visible from the surface). If we change the voltage in that point, we could change RAM voltage too. This means we could overvolt the RAM directly from the BIOS, if the mainboard allows to modifiy the AGP voltage. ;)"

hmm ..... what u think ?
If i just supply the memories from the 3V Line of the Molex connector, will the card run stable ?

3V on molex ? Hmmm, I know that there are 5V (red) and 12V (yellow). Anyway, we have 5500 PCI, why try so hard to mod a 5500 AGP to fit in modern mobos, AGP is dead too  :-[

S-ATA power have 3,3volts
the orange cable
yellow is 12volts
red 5
black is GND

hehe,


After reading twice the thread on forumzone.it, regarding the VSA voltmodding, i understand that i miss a point in the entyre Projekt.
;)
I did not measure the VSA and memory voltage on both platforms , to see the differences.
The card unstability on K8T800 Pro can be explained if the VSA core and/or Memory Voltages are lower than on Epox KT333 board.

So that i installed the Projekt Platform, and do the measurements.
Let me tell u something.
I was 100% sure that on the K8T800 Pro board the VSA and/or memories are supplyed with less Voltage...
Well i was wrong.

On both Platform the Voltages are the same.

VSA - 2.8V
Memories 3.3V.

See in the picture the measurements points.

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8839/measuredqa0.jpg

These results show me that not the supply voltages are the Problem...something else.

I did also the following check:
I rise the Vagp on the K8T800 board, from 1.65 V to 1.85V. The VSA and memory voltages were measurured on every VAGP changes and...they remain as above, no changes !

the power menagement parte are neat the power plug
i think the v5 use the power that come direct from the PSU for the Chips and memory

I have no ideea how to continue.
The same voltages on both Platforms makes me confused. :-/

Would a VSA core voltage rise to 3.0v help ?  ( also voltmoding )

To Pity that we don't have the card layout, traces and so on...

It remains for the moment the only method, that ciacara uses ( at forumzone.it ).

@Hank: Help !  ;)

more Vcore = more MHz possible but also many many more heat, you need a better cooling solution

hmm....i would like to see some picture with this voltmod. ( fur's nachmachen  ;D )
Can somebody post a picture with the modified card area ?
Some advices and result were great too.

It's been a while since i did not work on this projekt.

I wold get some free days, and with this ocasion i would like to do a review of the Projekt, in order get a full functionaly V5 AGP4x card.

Any ideas and suggestion would help.

;)

That would be awesome!

Imagine guys! A Voodoo 5 5500 @ AGP 4x ! Full performance!!!! New Processors!

Well, today i did a reveiw of the Project, and unfortunately i am unable to set the card to operate @1.5V !

@Hank : can u give me a hint ?
            I need your help !

..remember the era when pci-e motherboards were a new thing? many people were refusing to upgrade 'cause they would have to get a new graphics card as well.most of motherboard vendors simply ignored this with "screw them,everybody will have to upgrade to pci-e sooner or later",but some were trying to remedy the situation by providing a motherboard that would be able to accept both agp and pci-e cards alike.the ultimate result were the Dual series boards from Asrock,which offered both slots (a full performance agp8x slot and a full pci-e 16 slot) on one board.and for a very nice price,I might add.

but there was one more solution available-it was called an AGR (advanced graphics riser) slot.it was not very popular.why? well,mainly because it was cr@p-basically,they just slapped together two pci-slots and attached an agp connector to them.unsurprisingly,the performance and compatibility suffered terribly.many cards were almost two times slower (when compared to a real agp8x slot),some did not boot at all.lowend cards performed decently,but that didn't really matter much (4fps or 5fps-its all the same).overally,it was a bad idea,and only very few people have found it useful..

but (there is alway a but ;D),as one of the guys over at 3dfx.cz confirmed,this little joke of an agp slot has one ability that might come in handy-after removing the agp8x key,it can run agp 3.3V cards from 3dfx (v5 5500 fully tested) right out of the box,no tweaking necessary..so,if you happen to see one of these devils on ebay,well,you know what to do ;D

Well, i can`t understand to much from that link.
Just cutting the AGP key, plug and it`s running without problems ?

Can u translate the content for us please ?

I did,in the third part of my post-I just made long things short.the important part is (as I already said) that v5 5500agp works 100% ok in the mentioned motherboards AGR slot,no need to tweak anything,all you have to do is remove the key from the slot so the card can physically fit in.the rest is not really important (some questions,details about used cpu&overclocking and about previous attempts of running the card in agp8x slots etc)..

Can you post a screenshot that shows the voltage on a voodoo 5 AGP in that AGR? Are you sure this is going to work? Would be AWESOME!

I'll post more stuff as soon as it will be available.

That it's a 754 Socket, and unfortunately afaik the fastest CPU was a A64 3700+, single core. For Socket 754 no dual core CPU was made.
I search for an Skt.939 or AM2 board with AGR, but i could'nt find one.

Btw: any news ? screenshots ?

Taking advantage that for the moment this specific Voodoo5 AGP card from M14Radu is with me for modding and it already has the 4x/8x key cut onto the PCB as described above, I took the chance to aquire a socket 775 MB from ECS that features along the PCI Express slot also a so called "AGP Express" slot that is basicaly composed of 2 regular PCI slots routed togeter in the for of a keyed AGP 4x/8x. I had the ideea that after the visual inspection of the board and seeing no voltage signaling level shifter chips, that the AGP Express will be only able to provide 3.3V signaling like the PCI, despite the notch key.
Testing the card in the default state gave horrible artefacts on screen, but then I thought that if the AGP Express is basicaly a PCI slot, then I should use a PCI BIOS on the Voodoo5 card. After flashing all worked OK. More testing will be required before conclusion...
Until then - some pics:

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/646/68297942.jpg

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/5100/14937503.jpg

So you flashed a PCI BIOS on a AGP V5? I didn't even know thats possible :o
Very interesting... I'm really interested in Benches comparing an V5 using a P4 3,06 GHz S478 on Sis 645DX vs a P4 3GHz on this Board...

Wow :] but, It's fast? I read about this AGP Express and it's propably very slower than a real AGP port.


(sory for my english :P)

@Komponent: Nice to see that you are working on the Projekt.
I'm sure that you will succed !
;)
Keep up the good work mate !

So its an AGP -> PCI Voodoo 5... :D

Flippin WEIRD! :o

@Komponent looks very nice. A compatible LGA775 board for the V5 apg cards is great news and beeing as they are running in PCI66 mode the AGP Express will not be the bottleneck in this case.
Would be great to see some actual tests
Keep up the good work.

Guess it wasn't the BIOS but the Voodoo5 card itself used for testing that has problems. It produces serious stability issues even when used plugged into 100% compatible motherboards... I will remove the key notch from the AGP slot of the skt.775 MB and test the setup with a verified 2x 3.3V card. Anyway, I measured the VDDQ on the AGP slot and it is 3.3V as expected, like the agp 2x standard.
Until then, to answer the performance question of the AGP Express compared to regular PCI 33 slot: they are more or less the same, as seen in the pics bellow:

AGP Express:

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/996/v5agp.jpg

PCI 33Mhz:

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7751/v5pci.jpg

Benchmarcks done in single-chip mode. Will get back to you whith the progress of the project.

UPDATE:
Removed the notch key from AGP slot. Used verified Voodoo5 cards for testing. Results: The AGP Express slot present on ECS mainboards is compatible with AGP 2x (3.3v) cards but offers virtualy the same performance as a regular 33Mhz PCI slot.
A couple of screenshots:

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1856/agpv5.jpg

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5564/pciv5.jpg

Testing was done with no optimisations (BIOS, settings...) hence I guess the low scores.

Would it be possible to to provide 3.3v on a universal (no notches) slot 4x motherboard?

Has anyone tried modifying a riser card?

Note: I have no technical expertise in these matters as you can probably tell.

Did somebody try a v5 AGP in a compatible LGA775 board with AGP Express slot ?
Only Komponent did this?

;)

As I remember seeing nobody post about it, I thought dropping a line here:
For testing my 3.3V only 3dfx cards in my main rig I've been using for some time the Biostar K9T890-A9 motherboard with modded XGP slot (removed the pseudo-8x AGP notch).
I can confirm that it is safe and of better performance than my previous ECS MB with AGP Express.
http://www.abload.de/thumb/k8t890xgptcpyl.jpg
Nice thing it can natively take the 939 socket dual core CPUs, still no money at the moment to buy one and running it with a 3800+ A64.