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http://www.falconfly.de/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl 3dfx Section >> Tech Talk >> AGP.5 Release. http://www.falconfly.de/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1331631895 Message started by osckhar on 13.03.12 at 10:44:55

Title: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 13.03.12 at 10:44:55

Hello at all,

AGP.5 RELEASE:

PCB and mounting kit is ready for starting.

Components are in route.

How many 3Dfx people can be interested to buy one adpater agp2pci?

FIRST EDITION - CLOSED

ADDED 09/07/2012:

NOTES:
First batch of 5 samples started.
Design will be the same. Not changes as you can see in the pictures below.
Possibly in the future a new rev. will be done with some features, new pcb color, new slogan, new jumpers set 66MHz...
5 samples sold
Price 125Euros + shipping. If payment is done via paypal. Fees will be for the buyer.

PICTURES AGP.5 PCB ALREADY BUILT:

COMPONENTS SENT FOR SOLDERING:

Problems for soldering the agp connector.Pins has been bended.

From here I want to say thanks Michel for his help. He sent me all his agp5 adapters for testing them and check how they work. In the begining we started this project togheters but he left it for personal reason.

ADDED 10/07/2012

AGP.5 READY

BATCH 5 SAMPLES

FRONT

REAR

AGP.5 TESTING

AGP.5 adapter works perfect in PCI slot as PCI-X how you can see in the pictures below.

PCI SLOT

AGP.5+PCI-X2PCIe

3DMARK2001SE - AGP.5+PCI-X2PCIe - 1856 66MHz enabled pin49b masked.

SECOND EDITION:

- AGP.5 LE TURBO
- New PCB design
- 66MHz enabled by default
- Limited Edition - Desgined for V5-6000 users.
- And more...

And the most important- price for adpater will be 75Euros. Batch of 15 samples.

Best regards,
Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Loeschzwerg on 13.03.12 at 12:16:16

Great news :)

Well, this is depending on how much the total kit will cost. What sort of price do you have in mind?

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by RaverX on 13.03.12 at 12:31:11

Loeschzwerg wrote on 13.03.12 at 12:16:16:

Great news :)

Well, this is depending on how much the total kit will cost. What sort of price do you have in mind?

I couldn't said it any better :)

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 13.03.12 at 12:34:18

Loeschzwerg wrote on 13.03.12 at 12:16:16:

Great news :)

Well, this is depending on how much the total kit will cost. What sort of price do you have in mind?

Main problem is to start to produce the first batch is has high cost for the fixed costs plus all the components.

[screen + programming] & [PCB preparation costs]

If there are people interested price would low very easy if only there is one person range price can be between 100-150Euros.

The idea would be to sell those adapter between 60-75Euros inside 3Dfx community if really there is people interested here.

- Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Loeschzwerg on 13.03.12 at 12:39:13

60-75€ for a small series inside the 3dfx com would be great, it's a fair price :)

150€ are still ok for a first batch of the adapters. If you want to make some single prototypes prices can go up very easily to 300€ :o

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by trevormacro on 13.03.12 at 13:11:46

Good news oskhar :-)

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Gemail on 14.03.12 at 15:13:47

IIRC original AGP5 needs a 3.3V PCI slot (like PCI-X) to be plugged in to. The lines are routed directly from PCI to AGP, and 5V signaling like found in the vast majority of motherboards will damage the video card.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 14.03.12 at 16:13:34

Gemail wrote on 14.03.12 at 15:13:47:

Yes, you are right.

AGP2PCI is universal, works with both 5V and 3.3V signaling. To make AGP.5 would necessary a complicated construction design, so Ren decided to omit it.

AGP.5 only will work PCI 3.3v (PCI-x) giving 66MHz support.

Best regards,
Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by m14radu on 14.03.12 at 19:37:35

Great news Osckhar :)

I am interested for one piece...depending on the final price !

Let's see how many are interested !

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Varus on 14.03.12 at 21:26:32

Hello
I'm interested too. One piece.

Best Regards,
Lukas

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by sigtau on 14.03.12 at 22:16:05

osckhar wrote on 14.03.12 at 16:13:34:

Gemail wrote on 14.03.12 at 15:13:47:

Looking at the pictures of the prototype, I see the 5V key slot is open. I recommend blocking that off on the production units to keep it safe from accidental insertion into a 5V PCI slot.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Loeschzwerg on 14.03.12 at 23:27:33

The adapter will work in PCI 5V and 3.3V slots ;) Why? Simply because the I/O voltage pins aren't used within Ren's adapter design ;)

Take a look at the pinout:
http://pinouts.ru/Slots/PCI_pinout.shtml (difference between 3.3V and 5V PCI)

And now take a look at the eagle layout of Ren's adapter. The adapter does have it's own powersupply and it generates the 3.3V (needed for 3dfx cards) out of 5V provided either over a molex or via the PCI bus. No matter in what slot type you put that adapter in, the adapter always will support the AGP slot with it's own power supply.

So no problem from this side, the adapter won't kill your card ;)

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by gwb on 16.03.12 at 15:39:31

I would be interested in one adapter

-gwb

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by m14radu on 16.03.12 at 19:05:27

I suggest to create a list, in order to see how many people are interested and therefore we can calculate the price :)

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by oldskool on 17.03.12 at 22:59:38

m14radu wrote on 16.03.12 at 19:05:27:

I suggest to create a list, in order to see how many people are interested and therefore we can calculate the price :)

Chicken and Egg scenario.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by ps47 on 22.03.12 at 09:35:32

make a pool with a few price ranges, that should give you a pretty good idea how many people would like to buy and for what prices. anyway, I think for a price of 75e or less, they will sell like fresh donuts.

pretty sure a few guys from 3dfx.cz would buy some, I'll ask around.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 23.03.12 at 11:33:11

Hello,

I still checking prices but not sure if final price could be around 75Euros. At the moment I only have in mind to do a small batch not more than 15 samples and I would hold 2 or 3 for me.

Here an idea how prices can be

5uds - 150Euros
10uds - 125Euros
15uds -100Euros

I keep you informed.

Best regards,
Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Loeschzwerg on 23.03.12 at 11:59:13

Hey Oscar,

please take me on the list ;)

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by m14radu on 24.03.12 at 08:41:54

Osckhar: Please start the AGP.5 Order List :)

Btw: You are starting a new 3dfx Page ?
http://www.3dfx.es/

:o :o :o

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by m14radu on 31.03.12 at 07:32:14

Some fresh news Osckhar ?

Please keep us informed ;)

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by boolean on 14.05.12 at 11:45:06

Can someone please explain to me why you would like to buy one of these agp2pci converters, unless you've got a Voodoo 5 6000? Is there an advantage of using a Voodoo 5 5500 AGP over the MAC PCI version? I'd rather have an extra DVI port. Or am i missing something here?

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Loeschzwerg on 14.05.12 at 13:47:41

You aren't bound to old AGP1x-2x slots with 3,3v support anymore and can use PCI directly or in combination with an pci-pcie adapter.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by boolean on 14.05.12 at 14:16:41

Loeschzwerg wrote on 14.05.12 at 13:47:41:

You aren't bound to old AGP1x-2x slots with 3,3v support anymore and can use PCI directly or in combination with an pci-pcie adapter.

I'm aware of that, but why would you even use a converter while a regular Voodoo 5 5500 PCI will do the same? Does the AGP version has an advantage over the PCI edition?

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Loeschzwerg on 14.05.12 at 14:22:03

PCI and MAC cards aren't that common and can cost a lot, so this does help all users that have a V4/5 PCI.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by boolean on 14.05.12 at 15:21:24

Ah, now I get it! So, it's just a matter of costs? I can't imagine a custom made agp2pci adapter would be any cheaper as a Voodoo 5 5500 PCI MAC. If I was about to sell mine, I probably wouldn't get over €80 for it, while an agp2pci interface will be more expensive.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by goriath on 14.05.12 at 17:51:38

Oh well, basically I agree with you boolean :)

However such adaptor could really come in hand while testing old cards in different systems and I'm not speaking only about 3dfx cards.

Definitely a useful tool.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 09.07.12 at 12:55:10

ADDED UPDATES in first page.

Regards,
Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 10.07.12 at 10:54:21

ADDED INFO IN FIRST PAGE:

FIRST 5 BATCH READY

WORKS PERFECT IN PCI AS PCI-x

ONLY 3 AVAIBLE FOR SALE.

Best regards,
Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Loeschzwerg on 10.07.12 at 11:49:44

Simply awesome :)

I will see if I can find some time to finalize the different adapter design I did. Can you tell me how much the batch did cost? I could send you my design when finished and do a small batch of it?

It features a 66MHz Jumper and doesn't need the voltage converter parts.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 10.07.12 at 15:11:56

Loeschzwerg wrote on 10.07.12 at 11:49:44:

Of course! I will give you all the info.

Now one sample is on ebay BUY IT NOW - 175Euros.

Best regards,
Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by ps47 on 11.07.12 at 19:43:11

glad something nice came out of this. too bad I can't afford one right now.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 30.07.12 at 21:07:13

Only 2 available.

Once sold those 2 I will not build more.

Regards,
Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Loeschzwerg on 22.08.12 at 19:08:34

Hi Oscar,

the adapter works perfectly :)

At first the adapter didn't work using PCI Slot 4 even with different INT settings, but it works without problems on Slot 1. Both power supply modes work.

Here a view pictures from the adapter and the testrun:
http://www.abload.de/thumb/adapter_1yrj4p.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/adapter_2hxjbg.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/adapter_30yjhw.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/adapter_4ndjs1.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/test_1bdj3u.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/test_2lpjv4.jpg

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 23.08.12 at 11:09:44

Ren did very good work. Adapter works very stable.

NEWS:

New release is comming very soon since a Spanish group ordered me 10 samples.

Some nice features:

- AGP.5 LE TURBO
- New PCB design
- 66MHz enabled by default
- Limited Edition - Desgined for V5-6000 users.
- And more...

And the most important- price for adpater will be 75Euros. Batch of 15 samples.

I keep you informed.

Best regards,
Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by m14radu on 23.08.12 at 19:17:46

sounds Great !

thanks Osckhar :D

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Loeschzwerg on 24.08.12 at 08:17:34

I agree :)

My version will be low-end/low-cost. It features 66MHz, a very slim design and is reduced when it comes to the needed parts. Oscars version is the highend part :)

@Oscar: I'm also thinking about special brackets for the adapter that feature a VGA cutting. This way you can melt the adapter and the VGA card together so it can be easily mounted in a case. Two friends of mine could do the job. Of course we will need different types of brackets (5500 AGP, 6000 and so on).

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by m14radu on 24.08.12 at 09:09:49

The adapter should as slim as possible.
if you mount the adapter later in an pci2pcie adapter you must modify the Pc case...that is a common problem :)

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Loeschzwerg on 01.09.12 at 16:54:58

Hi all,

work continues and the signal traces for layer 1 and 4 are finished.

The adapter is 0,5cm lower than the original design.

http://www.abload.de/thumb/signal_bot_done_3512rujtg.png -> Bottom Layer
http://www.abload.de/thumb/signal_top_done_3512m7knz.png -> Top Layer

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by ps47 on 05.09.12 at 18:02:08

great work guys :)

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Loeschzwerg on 23.09.12 at 19:36:26

Damn time is running away ^^

But finally my design is ready:
http://www.abload.de/thumb/loeschzwerg_3812_finakaqs0.png

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Cosmos on 04.10.13 at 14:58:56

I need one adapter : how much with shipping to France ?

Thanks,

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 01.12.13 at 11:42:48

Hi,

New small batch is here. AGP3.0

This new version add:

New design

Jumper for set 33/66MHz

New hole to add a front/back small heatsink using holes from bracket. It is recomended if you want to use V5-6000 8xFSAA stable.

PCB better quality thickness PCB is 1.7mm instead of 1.29

AGP2.0 never saw the light since project was stopped. It had as important feature works by default 66MHz but not possible to set it 33MHz.

Here some fast pics:

BATCH 4 SAMPLES.

NEW HOLE FOR ADDING HEATISNK

TURBO JUMPER SET 33/66MHz

Now I need to soder components and test all the feautures work well.

Regards,
Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by ultima on 01.12.13 at 16:20:13

looks very nice and clean Oscar, I especially like the print-on that says:

Limited Edition, Designed for V5-6000 Users :)

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by m14radu on 01.12.13 at 16:34:43

Nice work Osckhar !

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by trevormacro on 01.12.13 at 17:00:34

Wow it's a good adaptor :) and this time without selotape on pin 49b to put 66 MHz mode.

So nice Oscar!

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 01.12.13 at 18:58:33

Thanks!

It looks amazing. I love it.

I need to test if with new design motherboard detects the adapter 33 or 66MHz with jumper set.

I have more ideas but we will see how it works. I would like to build a final revision but times will tell us.

Regards,
Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by trevormacro on 01.12.13 at 19:15:28

osckhar wrote on 01.12.13 at 18:58:33:

Have a good work Oscar.
When I think it was the adaptor of an amazing man in the past and after that it was mine and with your help it become THIS adaptor.
So nice progress.
When Gold Leader said it will be in bads hands (bads guys). Now I can smile :)

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 01.12.13 at 19:28:26

My friend we are in the dark side! LoL

- Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by trevormacro on 01.12.13 at 20:05:29

osckhar wrote on 01.12.13 at 19:28:26:

My friend we are in the dark side! LoL

- Oscar.

Like the Rampage very dark...

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 03.12.13 at 11:47:58

Hello,

Yesterday had some time free and assembled first prototype AGP3.0. It worked very well even with a V5-6000. Just little hot IC1 but not lock ups, very solid and stable. As well JUMPER for setting 33/66MHz did his job and worked very well.

ASSEMBLED PROCCESS:

SECOND SAMPLE READY FOR ASSEMBLING WITH NEW AGP SOCKET.

I tested it with an ASUS WS with PCI-x support.

V5-6000 AGP3.0 SET 33MHz

V5-6000 3DMARK2001SE - SCORE 33MHz

V5-6000 AGP3.0 SET 66MHz

V5-6000 3DMARK2001SE - SCORE 66MHz

I also tested using a V5-5500 AGP

V5-5500 AGP3.0 ADAPTER 66MHz SET

V5-5500 3DMARK2001SE - SCORE 33MHz

V5-5500 3DMARK2001SE - SCORE 66MHz

Regards,
Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by trevormacro on 03.12.13 at 11:59:13

Look very good ;)
Congratulations!

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by m14radu on 03.12.13 at 19:07:39

The adapter is AMAZING !!!

Great Work Osckhar ! :D

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Komponent on 03.12.13 at 20:41:40

Cool stuff!!!
Maybe add in the next REV level shifters so the converter could be safely used in regular 5v PCI slots?

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 03.12.13 at 21:35:31

Thanks at all!

Komponent wrote on 03.12.13 at 20:41:40:

Cool stuff!!!
Maybe add in the next REV level shifters so the converter could be safely used in regular 5v PCI slots?

Adapter does not need any shifter since the card has his powersupply 3.3V. I mean AGP card get 3.3V from powersupply installed in AGP2PCI. It works in both PCI and PCI-x slot 3.3V/5V. Check adapter pins and you will see how 3.3V pins are not routed from PCI_PIN to AGP_PIN.

- Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Komponent on 03.12.13 at 22:07:11

osckhar wrote on 03.12.13 at 21:35:31:

Thanks at all!
Adapter does not need any shifter since the card has his powersupply 3.3V. I mean AGP card get 3.3V from powersupply installed in AGP2PCI. It works in both PCI and PCI-x slot 3.3V/5V. Check adapter pins and you will see how 3.3V pins are not routed from PCI_PIN to AGP_PIN.
- Oscar.

I'm sorry, I have great respect for you, but this time you are wrong.
It's not about the power supply, it's about the signaling. The motherboard sends data in 5V logic to a 5V PCI slot. Yes, adding a power supply for VDDQ does make the video card to send data in 3.3V logic, but it will still receive 5V signals from the motherboard. That's the whole point why AGP2PCI has level shifters installed. Sure, it might work for the moment but it is not safe. Don't have to trust me, the creator of AGP5, REN, has warned about not using AGP5 in 5V PCI slots:
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=ro&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.3dfx.cz%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D10%26t%3D196%26start%3D280

Quote:

What's the thread from Loeschzwerga who linkujes is bullshit. 5V mobo AGP.5 REALLY detonates card, I told you already 10x's host.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 03.12.13 at 22:48:59

@komponent,
You dont need apologize. My electronic knowlege is very few. :-[

Question- If adapter takes the voltage from his power supply for sending data 3.3V to the VGA instead of 5V from PCI socket. How card can be damaged?

In the power rail 5V from PCI slot there are data needed for the well working of the VGA?
I understand V5 rail is only a voltage rail to power up pci device. If adapter omits it and take voltage for power up the vga from itself power supply... I dont see the problem, but I am not engineer electronic and you know a lot of more about this than me.

Thanks,
Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Komponent on 04.12.13 at 05:59:58

No, no, no, again, it's not about the power supply, it's about the logic level:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_level
See it that way: you have AD[x], C/BE[x], and the other signal lines that are connected directly from PCI to AGP through PCB traces. If the motherboard wants to send a logic "1" to any of these lines, it will put it "high", meaning at (ideally) close to 5v (for logic "0" it will be low, at close to 0v).
That is no problem if the target is 5v input tolerant (Avenger GPUs should be OK, IIRC), but VSA100s were designed for 1.5v and 3.3v logic only. Nobody can estimate how will they tolerate being operated in 5v signaling, especially in long term.
A good hint is: Look at Voodoo4/5 PCI cards. They all have level shifters installed to convert from 5v to 3.3v logic (IDT quickswitch parts near the PCI edge). So it is safe to assume that VSA100 are NOT 5v input tolerant GPUs.
AGP2PCI also has level shifters installed. As a side note, it also has isolated power supply for 3.3v and VDDQ, like AGP5 does.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 04.12.13 at 09:41:43

Komponent wrote on 04.12.13 at 05:59:58:

Now understand what you mean. I was thinking the problem was about to give the right voltage to the card 3.3V/5V but the problem is about signals data between PCI socket & VGA card. In a PCI-x slot signals are sending 3.3V but in a normal PCI slot signals data are sending 5V.

Just not sure if is a worth to add shifter as used on original adapter or in VSA-100 pci family since the idea with this adapter is take advantage from 66MHz bus instead of 33MHz.

I will check it but I guess I will need to change all the traces or design for adding shifter.

Thanks,
Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Loeschzwerg on 04.12.13 at 09:56:53

Komponent wrote on 03.12.13 at 22:07:11:

What's the thread from Loeschzwerga who linkujes is bullshit. 5V mobo AGP.5 REALLY detonates card, I told you already 10x's host.

Well, REN is right about his comment about my post here:

Loeschzwerg wrote on 14.03.12 at 23:27:33:

...but because I wasn't precise enough. He is right when he says that a PCi 5V only board will fry the card (or it simply doens't work/boot).

BUT! Most (if not all) more modern mainboards, that are PCI2.1/2.2 compliant will work with the selfmade adapter and don't harm the card. Why? Simply because the southbridges are designed to work with 3.3v cards even when they are keyed for 5V.

Want an example?
http://uk.ts.fujitsu.com/rl/servicesupport/techsupport/boards/Motherboards/MicroStar/ms6380/6380%20LE-1.pdf

Quote:

Supports 3.3V/5V PCI bus Interface

Now, why does the original AGP2PCI adapter and the V4/V5 cards to have those signal shifters? Simply to be compatible to all older boards and configurations.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by goriath on 04.12.13 at 14:37:48

Does this imply that the power supply circuitry on the AGP.5 adapter is redundant?

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 04.12.13 at 14:50:40

goriath wrote on 04.12.13 at 14:37:48:

Does this imply that the power supply circuitry on the AGP.5 adapter is redundant?

No, since without it the VGA will not boot up. Internal power supply send 3.3V signal to 10 agp pins A/B needed.

- Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by goriath on 04.12.13 at 15:35:05

What I meant to say was:

As far as I can understand, the power supply circuitry is there to provide the needed 3.3V from a source of 5V (PCI slot and/or molex), right? So, if this circuitry is involved when feeds the card plugged into a 5V PCI slot, if you don't implement level shifters because you are planning to use it into 3.3V PCI (because of 66MHz), why should you keep the power supply circuitry since the card could be fed through the 3.3V PCI slot itself?

Since plugging the adapter (with 3.3V card) into a PCI 5V ONLY slot doesn't seem safe without implementing level shifters, then you can remove the power circuitry from the adapter and use it only into 3.3V PCI slots. In this way you feed the card through the 3.3V PCI slot itself. In the other thread Komponent built a very simple adapter that shows what I'm referring to.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 04.12.13 at 16:09:33

I hope I can explain me since technician words on english are not my hard.

Here how I understand AGP.5 works:

Internal Power Supply is all the time working giving 3.3V VGA device. Does not matter if you are using a PCI_5V or PCIx_3.3V.
AGP.5 adapter does not have traces from PCI_PIN to AGP_PINS in power rail. Thanks internal Power Supply adapter can be used in both PCI/PCIx slot with right voltage. Yes, now we must to know if really the SHIFTERS are needed when adapter is pluged in PCI 5V.

Quote:

why should you keep the power supply circuitry since the card could be fed through the 3.3V PCI slot itself?

If for example you only want to run the AGP.5 adapter on PCIx_3.3V. Yes, you can omit all the internal Power Supply but traces must be created from PCI_PIN to AGP_PIN adapter. So VGA will take the voltage directly from the PCI slot and you can cost saving in material

For example the Adapter version from Dominik. He had a great idea since his adapter does not need internal power supply for 3.3V Rail since a sata connection will do the work.

Quote:

BUT! Most (if not all) more modern mainboards, that are PCI2.1/2.2 compliant will work with the selfmade adapter and don't harm the card. Why? Simply because the southbridges are designed to work with 3.3v cards even when they are keyed for 5V.

If Dominik is right and thanks southbrige adapter does not need the SHIFTERS for transfering data signals in correct voltage. My question is how shouthbridge detects if it needs to send signal data in 3.3V when adapter is pluged into 5V PCI slot?

Thanks,
Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Komponent on 04.12.13 at 16:25:14

Yes, you can do without dedicated power supply for something like a Voodoo5 5500, if run inside a server/workstation designed motherboard, into a PCI-X slot, but I can't know if it will be enough to run a Voodoo5 6000, or with a low quality motherboard into a "regular" PCI slot.

If someone knows for granted that the motherboard he intends to use with AGP5 does 3.3V level logic, sure it is safe, no matter how the slot is keyed. That was never the point. The case is about 5V PCI. If you're not sure (or don't know) what you have or you know to have a 5V part, it's not safe to test your luck with AGP5 or bad things could happen :o With level shifting you don't care about those issues ;)

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by goriath on 04.12.13 at 16:38:47

OK, I understand now.
I was thinking that adapter was designed to change 5V to 3.3V only when 5V source was used, while keep feeding the card through the PCI slot if 3.3V source.

In the picture I saw the adapter working into (I guess...) 3.3V PCI slot and with the molex unplugged. When the molex comes to?

osckhar wrote on 04.12.13 at 16:09:33:

That's what I was wondering too.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Komponent on 04.12.13 at 18:38:37

It doesn't switch. If it signals at 3.3v level that is compatible with 5v logic (the thresholds for logic high and low are met). From 3.3v initiator to 5v target it's compatible. The problem arises in reverse, from 5v to 3.3v, if the 3.3v target is not 5v tolerant. Then level shifters are required.
In simple words, if the motherboard signals at 3.3v all the time AND its inputs are 5v tolerant, then it works with both 5v and 3.3v PCI cards, no matter the slot keying. A number of newer motherboards (BUT NOT ALL) do work that way. Those are safe to use with AGP5 and equally with my passive AGP2PCIX adapter.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by Loeschzwerg on 04.12.13 at 18:47:27

The PCI 2.1 specification recommends using dual voltage buffers that can work with 5v/3.3v, that's probably why 5v keyed slots can also work with 3.3v signaling.

Edit: From Spec 2.1

Edit2: KT133, KT266 are compatible. 440BX is also compatible. All famous plattforms for 3dfx gamers will do fine. Every 2.2/2.3 compliant board will anyway. My advice: Always check the data sheets of the board.

We could do a compatibility list.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by goriath on 04.12.13 at 19:54:18

Komponent wrote on 04.12.13 at 18:38:37:

So, let's see if I got it:

We have basically an (could I call?) *interruptor* that does work this way:

0V - 0 binary - LOW - so it's OFF
3.3V/5V - 1 binary - HIGH - so it's ON

Now, let's say we have 3.3V source and we need to feed a 5V target - in this case there aren't problems since the 3.3V (MAX) that the source can provide are actually within the range of tolerances (0V<3.3V<5V); so, since it's non-zero signal it acts as HIGH anyway.

On the other hand, we could have a 5V source to feed a 3.3V target - in this case singal is still a non-zero so it acts as HIGH BUT we could run into troubles since the 5V that the source provides is actually out of the spec's range and could not be tolerated by the target. Here is where the level shifters come to.

Is it correct?

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 05.12.13 at 09:33:24

If I understand it right. Since PCI 2.1 compliance the southbridge will send signal data in 3.3V even for V5 PCI slot. Am I correct? Or this feautre is added in PCI2.2 compliance?

Any motherboard manufactured from 1999 year must be compatible since PCI2.2 was introduced in 1998 year. Am I correct?

Yes, make a compatible motherboard list is a good idea.

Thanks,
Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 27.01.14 at 13:09:54

AGP3.3 DUAL VERSION

- Limited Edition black PCB / Flash Golden letters.
- Fixed some minor bugs.
- Modified for using the adapter without internal Power Supply (only PCIx 3.3v)
- Added an extra IC regulator on back of the adapter to help IC1 to controll better the heat.
- Added new holes for improvement the heatsink than vers. AGP3.0
- Via jumpers (Open / Short) you can set the adapter according as needed for each user.
- Different range price.

I modified the PCB for different settings. What it means different range price.

LOW COST ADAPTER:

Not internal POWER SUPPLY. It only compatible in PCIx slots. It could be the best solution for all V5-6000 users since If PCIx can handle the power rail needed when 6k is runing 8xFSAA. It means, cheap adatper and not heat problem. Only a motherboard with PCIx slot is needed.

MEDIUM COST ADAPTER (users dont own V5-6000 card):

Internal Power Supply. It means it can be used in standar PCI slot with 5V. Be ware here. Make sure your PCI slot is at least 2.1 compliance. I still did not find a motherboard is not compatible with adapter.

HIGH END DEVICE DUAL SETTINGS VIA JUMPERS + FRONT / BACK HEATSINK ON IC + EXTRA IC REGULATOR (Only recommendable for V5-6000 users):

It would be a deluxe version dual. Settings via jumpers where you can choose what manner you want to use it. Problems? Yes, if you not use correctly the jumpers VGA can be killed.

Best regards,
Oscar.

Title: Re: AGP.5 Release.
Post by osckhar on 29.01.14 at 11:59:03

Hi,

I built a fast sample only for testing if AGP3.3 DUAL ADAPTER with not internal power supply could be handled for PCIx slot when V5-6000 is in full load 8xFSAA.

SIMPLE DESIGN AGP3.3 ONLY FOR TESTING.

SCORE IN FASTEST MODE

I was worried since I was not sure if in full load the PCIx slot would be enough to feed the V5-6000 8xFSAA and yes, card was in looping mode for more than 30 minutes to 8xFSAA and not lock up, not heat.

Best regards,
Oscar.