For all those that have never seen it (56k Warning!) :

Uncompressed vs. S3TC Enhanced Textures :

http://www.falconfly.de/img/noS3TC-1.jpg

http://www.falconfly.de/img/S3TC-1.jpg

http://www.falconfly.de/img/noS3TC-2.jpg

http://www.falconfly.de/img/S3TC-2.jpg

Looks pretty cool, eh!?  :o
Think it´ll look like this with my system?

It should, but there are some requirements :

- run UnrealTournament in OpenGL
- have the HighRes Textures installed from the 2nd CD
- enable S3TC in UnrealTournament.ini :

under [OpenGLDrv.OpenGLRenderDevice]
look for : UseS3TC=True

To increase Texture Detail/Sharpness, look for :
LODBias=-0.000000

I have it set to LODBias=-0.250000 , lower values are better quality. Beginning from about -0.5 (or even lower), some FSAA and Aniso Filtering is needed to smoothen the Textures, since they will become extremely sharp even at a distance.

The Result is quite significant, looks awesome at -0.25 already.

I also recommend using the latest OpenGL Renderer, which can be downloaded here :
http://cwdohnal.home.mindspring.com/utglr/

There are alot of new Options, both of which can significantly inprove Performance, as well as Image Quality (there is a special DXT1-to-DXT3 Option, which will workaround otherwise degraded Texture quality on NVidia cards)

I have to agree with the fact that these pictures look amazing, and are of very good quality.
A nice show of quality from the good old, Unreal Tournament. It's the "Facing Worlds" map.

On what card was the first screenshot been taken? It would be nice to show on another picture how the same place would look on a Voodoo without texture compression (it is very close, if not over the image with S3TC), with the 22-bit filter, highest detail?

I believe this is a good question, since I didn't see for some time screenshots from games on a Voodoo...

I made them all with the R9700pro...

At that time, UT's MipMap LOD setting was at -0.25 I think, and "Auto-Generate MipMap's" Enabled (sort of removes the MipMap Banding, the effect looks similar to 3dfx MipMap Dithering)

I currently run it around -0.5 to -0.7 LOD Bias, still experimenting... But these Settings really improve Image Quality :)

lol, Creative gipped my a$$. I got UT bundled with my SBLive!5.1. DAMN IT, didn't get the 2nd cd...

EDIT: damn swear filter...

What I wonder is why the first picture is looking with some mapping and clamping problems?

The second picture is also showing a very slight texture placing imperfections, which reminds me of the fact that we have newer graphics cards, not designed for Unreal Tournament and other older games.

Although I took out for a test S3TC on a ProSavageDDR (S3 card designed in 2002), the result was not similar with the first picture. There could be differences, but are by far less noticeable than between your first 2 screenshots...

A little bit sure was lost in the jpeg compression (although I chose 100% quality); I simply couldn't Link 10MB of Images into the Forum. In-Game, the S3TC Textures (Shot 2 and 4) look absolutely perfect, really beautiful to look at :)

The error with the Planet Texture without S3TC I also noted earlier (Voodoo3 and Voodoo5 OpenGL) if I remember correctly, but I'm not sure if those appeared under Glide also.

Yo Falcon!

Well I also own a Radeon 9700 Pro and have tried and Tried and TRIED to get the compressed textures working for UT, but to no avail! :'(

Could you PLEASE do a proper guide to getting this working (I've looked for one but they are all REALLY vague!) :P

Thanks very much! ;D

PEACE! 8)

Ehm, it is already posted above (?)

It's real easy :

- Install S3TC Enhanced Textures from 2nd CD
- Install 3rd Party Renderer V2.4 (Link above)
- Set UnrealTournament to run in OpenGL
- Set "UseS3TC" to Enabled in UnrealTournament.ini, OpenGL Render Section

That's it :)

Umm...sorry to say...

Been there - tried that - does NOTHING! :'(

I've done the same thing BOTH with my Rad9700Pro system AND my mates Voodoo5500 system! ???

BOTH systems look like 'all blurry' software renderer - even though it's the OGL renderer? :P

Does it matter what O.S. you use? ???

I'm running under WinMe (and so is he...) [hey it rhymes!] :D

I'm using latest Catalyst and UT-OGL renderer on my system, and the S3TC OGL driver for the Voodoo5500 system.

STILL no luck? :-/

The OS should not matter.

(I remember for the Voodoo5 though, only the Win2k .0761 OpenGL Driver supported S3TC if I'm correct)

Beware though, that by far not all Textures actually are S3TC.

So don't wonder if you don't see any different in quite a number of Maps. Still, CTF-Face should work with the visible difference, unless you made an error (?)

wrote on 30.09.03 at 15:12:54:

A little bit sure was lost in the jpeg compression (although I chose 100% quality); I simply couldn't Link 10MB of Images into the Forum. In-Game, the S3TC Textures (Shot 2 and 4) look absolutely perfect, really beautiful to look at :) The error with the Planet Texture without S3TC I also noted earlier (Voodoo3 and Voodoo5 OpenGL) if I remember correctly, but I'm not sure if those appeared under Glide also.

I don't remember to have ever seen texture placing problems under glide and on a Voodoo in general. Still the first picture looks kind of strange. I saw a Banshee on an OpenGL rendering (tweaked settings for full quality), and I didn't remember to see such blurry and small textures, as in your first screenshot. I am not 100% sure that I am right. Might as well be only what I remember of.

I will take a picture and mark the place which is looking kind of strange. Falconfly will show my pictures...

The pictures are a proof that a texture placing problem really occurs on the Radeon, and this is happening also in NFS3, Quake3.

No matter if you have a screenshot in JPEG or BMP, still it is noticeable.

The pictures are only showing the areas in which texture placing problems occurs in the most noticeable way, not in every place in which they occur...

The 2 Images you sent me :

http://www.falconfly.de/temp/ut_clamp1.jpg

http://www.falconfly.de/temp/ut_clamp2.jpg

Interesting Catch, I never noticed those tiny errors before during Gameplay.

I must add, that some of the Texture Quality of the Screenshots might be affected by some of the Advanced Settings of the OpenGL Renderer V2.4...
(I was still experimenting with some of the Options, that might have had an influence on the Images).

Still, overall, I would say the S3TC really looks very good.
Only sad thing being, it seems not alot of Maps actually use the enhanced Textures (I really looked out for more good examples, but to my surprise honestly didn't find alot) :(

Anyway, I noticed problems with newer cards like Geforce4MX440 in Unreal Tournament, both in OpenGL and in D3d, although the errors were not quite of the same nature.

I remember watching "Phobos" on a Geforce, maximum details, and what was strange in the overall look, was a flickering of textures (multitexturing didn't work as it should, and the back texture was shown on one half of the texture rectangle (/*), while the other texture was on the other side (*/), when they should be seen one completely over the otherone).

On ATI, this problem is still visible, but a bit more hard. The more noticeable thing is that texture are having placing problems. I remeber seeing one of my colegues trying all the texture placing (origin, through the drivers), but still the result was not satisfactory.

Also, I remeber the fact that on other games (such as NFS), there is an even stranger effect when activating FSAA, since the texture placing problems tend to increase in strength.

Texture placing problems happend on both Nvidia and ATI graphics cards, more or less, depending on the game and drivers.

As a funny thing, I remembered runing a larger number of games on a Banshee (from NFS2SE, to Quake3, Unreal Tournament, Emperor:Battle for Dune.., Max Payne, Serious Sam, and I never noticed texture placing problems on OpenGL, Direct3D, Glide. Also, no multi-texturing problems (I know that the card has one TMU, but errors can still appear if something is not well handled). The only problem s that did appear were that the game was too slow, or didn't start at all, or it showed Z-buffering problems, since it was using 24bit Z-buffer (a Nascar game I think).

Still amazing that the Voodoo cards, even if they are old, are still capable of showing a surprisingly variate number of games very well...

The truth for the majority, is, that the texture placing and the multitexturing problems are harder to notice, and most of the time, why bother or even notice them when you are palying the game you like very much, and it goes as fast as you like...

Hmm...it is EXACTLY as I thought! :o

Well, I'm here to prove ya' wrong Falcon! ;)

You thought that it wouldn't matter WHAT O.S. I was using when trying to enable S3TC! :P

Oh, but it DOES! ::)

From what I recall, I read about this in a forum somewhere at the beginning of the summer (can't remember where?)... ???

Apparently S3TC will only work in Windows NT based O.S.'s!!! :o

I've checked it out and I'm SURE I'm right, because...

I used to run my Kyro 2 on my Windows ME Rig (the Kyro 2 supports S3TC as do all new cards), but it NEVER worked in Windows ME no matter WHAT I tried! :'(

Now the Kyro 2 is in my Dual PII server - with dual V2's also (while I'm on that topic, it's 'nearly' finished, so pictures should be up sooner or later...). :D

The Server runs Win2K Pro, so I tested S3TC on it and BAM! ;D

It works FIRST TIME! (And looks bloody brilliant!!!) 8)

If anyone can get S3TC running on WinME - you're either bloody lucky or it's just a fluke! >:(

Nuff said! (rant over!) ;)

PEACE! 8)

That's very strange, since I use Win98SE myself (?)

Anyway, as said, I know the 3dfx Drivers are indeed different (Win9x vs. Win2k/XP), but still I reckoned it should be possible.

And for other Cards, I never heard of such a restriction (S3TC and OpenGL work OS independent after all).

If what you said was correct, I shouldn't be seeing S3TC Textures here ;)

I don't have time right now, but I might try to sqeeze a test in next week (I still have a Voodoo4, Radeon 7500 and a Kyro2 I could test under Win98 )

Hmm...I had suspected this also! ::)

Which means the problem is one of the following...

1. Windows ME has 'issues' with S3TC. :'(

2. I'm running something on BOTH of my WinME systems that is preventing S3TC from working. :'(

Maybe it'd be best if you could do the tests to compare Win98 to WinME and see where S3TC will work! ;)

Thanx.... :D

Unfortunately, I don't have WinME :-X

Darn it! :(

Anyone out there running WinME that can help me and Falcon with our S3TC experiment? ???

Patience - perhaps you can help? ???

Anyone else? ???

C'mon people! ;)

I have windows ME that I could easily set up on something. I haven't read the entire thread, just browsed it, so what are the requirements for the S3TC thing, i.e.  video card and processor (I need to know if I can get away with a PII 350 because I don't want ME back in this box). Also, I have the following cards: Voodoo Rush, V5 5500 AGP, GeForce2 (32mb AGP), and an ATI Xpert 128 (8mb PCI), and of course some stupid integrated Intel video. Will any of these work? If so which one will work best? I am currently in the process of rebuilding the PII, so it's no big deal to switch stuff around a little.

Requirements for the 'test' are as follows... ;)

1. Unreal Tournament
2. S3TC textures (UT CD #2)
3. Pretty much any processor (your old PII will be fine)
4. A GFX card that supports S3TC

Your best bet for GFX is either Geforce 2 or the Voodoo 5 (although you may have to read up a little to get S3TC to work correctly with the V5) :P

Good luck! ;D

Alright, before swapping or testing any Cards, I first off ran the RealTech OpenGL Extensions Viewer V2.05 .

I ran it on the following Cards :

ATI Radeon 9700pro, Catalyst 3.8
http://www.falconfly.de/img/OpenGL-Radeon9700pro_1.jpg
http://www.falconfly.de/img/OpenGL-Radeon9700pro_2.jpg
S3TC Support : fully implemented

PS. It was interesting to see that ATI even implemented some proprietary NVidia OpenGL extensions ;)

ATI Radeon 7500DDR, Catalyst 3.8
http://www.falconfly.de/img/OpenGL-Radeon7500DDR_1.jpg
http://www.falconfly.de/img/OpenGL-Radeon7500DDR_2.jpg
S3TC Support : fully implemented

Otherwise, interesting to see that even with the latest Driver available, the card is not even 100% OpenGL 1.2 compilant.
Looks like they settled with what is most needed for Games here (actually not unlike 3dfx at its time).

3dfx Voodoo4-4500 AGP, 3dfx Win9x V1.04.01beta
http://www.falconfly.de/img/OpenGL-Voodoo4-4500(3dfx10401beta)_1.jpg
http://www.falconfly.de/img/OpenGL-Voodoo4-4500(3dfx10401beta)_2.jpg
S3TC Support : broken

While the last 3dfx Driver (using the .0761 Win9x OpenGL ICD, 21 Nov 2000) has S3TC support within its Extensions, absolutely no Texture Compression was listed under Cababilities, indicating that there's something wrong with the implementation.

So if S3TC doesn't work here, it would not surprise me.

3dfx Voodoo4-4500 AGP, AmigaMerlin Win9x V2.9
http://www.falconfly.de/img/OpenGL-Voodoo4-4500(AmigaMerlin29)_1.jpg
http://www.falconfly.de/img/OpenGL-Voodoo4-4500(AmigaMerlin29)_2.jpg
S3TC Support : fully implemented

As the AmigaMerlin 2.9 Driver is using the 3dfx .0761 Win2k OpenGL ICD (16 Jan 2001), S3TC support seems fully and correctly implemented here, appearing both under Capabilities and Extensions.

That would explain, why (so far) Users with Win2k reported they were able to run UT with S3TC enabled, while Win9x Users (using reference Drivers) were not able to succeed in doing so.

Still, haven't done testing yet, and also haven't swapped the Kyro2 for testing.

Looking at the 3dfx OpenGL Driver's Capabilities in general, is it obvious why this has been a very problematic field in the past already ::)

But already, I should seem clear that Win9x (including WinME) should not have anything inherent that would block S3TC OpenGL Extensions. If it is present, it should work :)

OKAY! Time to end this whole stupid controversy that I started not so long ago! :P

First off I'd like to apologise for talking S#!T during my previous posts in this thread, and also to say that Falcon was correct, the problem has NOTHING to do with the O.S.! ::)

Anyhow, I found the solution to my problem after comparing BOTH by UT setups for about an hour or so...and the problem was (believe me I kicked myself when I realized!!!) ::)

AN OLD OPENGL32.DLL HAD BEEN LEFT IN MY UT SYSTEM FOLDER!!! :o

AAARGH!!! >:(

Just goes to show folks, usually it's the most simple and STUPID problems that cause glitches! ::)

Nuff said! :P

PEACE! 8)

well, i suppose it's good that you figured that out, cause I can't find CD 2  :-/

wrote on 12.10.03 at 15:52:08:

Looking at the 3dfx OpenGL Driver's Capabilities in general, is it obvious why this has been a very problematic field in the past already ::)

Okay, that will change in the near future! Good... bad... I'm the guy with the gun! ;D

For anyone looking for the UT S3TC 2nd CD: Nightstormer from x3dfx has uploaded it for download...

Get it here...

this guys got many versions of the s3tc-Renderer for unreal Tournament
look down the bottom of the page
http://www.3dcenter.de/downloads/

been trying to get it running on my radeon 9600 pro !!!

Hello IG88! :)

Just some tips for ya'... ;)

1. Check for 'stray' opengl32.dll files in your UT system folder - delete them if you find any (this drove me NUTS for ages) ::)

2. The current OGL renderer works fine with Radeon cards! (see Falcon's ealier post for the link...) ;D

Hey dborca! :)

Another EVIL DEAD fan! ;D

GROOVY! 8)

(for all those who don't know, the quote dborca used is from the LASERDISC version of Army of Darkness - the same scene is DIFFERENT on the DVD version!) :o

L8R DUDES! 8)

thanks ! tried the S3TC ok but some corruption lighting and some textures not too bad though

i`ll try the other  enhanced version

works well glad its running again !!

expected higher fps though radeon 9600 pro runs it about as fast
as a v5500 120 or so

maybe cpu limit on radeon ? 1.6 xp

it runs quite bad for me :

XP 2400+
384MB PC 133
V5 5500 on AM 2.9
windows 98 SE

this renderer doesn't work at all on my PC, UT falls back to software mode
http://cwdohnal.home.mindspring.com/utglr/

this one works with .761 ICD  (with wickedgl too, but then there's no S3TC)
http://www.3dcenter.de/downloads/unreal-tournament-s3tc.php
but I only got ~ 20fps in 800x600 fsaa 4x and 25fps in fsaa 2x, and there's an annoying mouselag, especially with 4x
but DM_Phobos looks great :)

other bug : when I quit I get back to a functional Windows.. but with a black screen and only the mouse cursor is visible
but maybe it's the drivers.. quake3 has become f***ed up (black screen on launch), I had already got that with amigamerlin 2.9  (still longing for the 3.0  :D)

What were the results with no FSAA? And you didn't mentioned 16 or 32 bit color depth, OpenGL or Glide interface. For Glide you don't get anything with WickedGL, since Wicked is for OpenGL, and Amigamerlin might be a bit slower, do to the aim of compatibility.

opengl renderer with S3TC of course (that's what this thread is all about ;) ), in 16bits


in glide I'm more in the 60-70fps range with fsaa 2x
as the game already looks awesome I'll go on playing that way

Maybe I should have tried with no AA.. but no AA sucks, I always  use 2x on demanding games ;D