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I have a computer here which has an ASUS motherboard with a Socket A KM400 chipset running XP Pro.

When the sytem has a 2000+ chip installed (133 mhz bus) everything works fine, when I install a 1.0 ghz Athlon (10 x 100 mhz) the system refuses to run OpenGL apps like Quake II and III but runs Direct X just fine.

Has anyone ever heard of anything like this? I did a Google search but turned up nothing. I can swap the 2000+ back in and Quake III works perfect but just locks up when the CPU is swapped back.

Even changing the ram speed to "safe" had no effect, none was expected though as it is good Corsair DDR 333 ram.

Some older Games required a re-installation if a CPU was downgraded, so that certain SIMD features were not available anymore (e.g. SSE in that case)

That was more a Game-related Problem rather than CPU problem. Might also be the Driver used, but overall remains a rare problem only few people encountered (CPU's were mainly upgraded, rarely downgraded, so some Games didn't take that possibility into account after being installed).

The Athlon Thunderbird CPU's had only the benefits of 3D-Now! & 3D-Now Enhanced & MMX to keep it short SSE aka Streaming Single instruction multiple data Extensions came in the later AThlonXP 1500+ Palomino cores and yes when downgrading from an AthlonXP to a Thunderbird a reinstall of the game or program is highly recommended especially Open GL based games like Quake2 and 3.

I have had the same with my Thunderbird 1200 and Palimono 2100+ ;)

wrote on 26.11.05 at 09:47:43:

Some older Games required a re-installation if a CPU was downgraded, so that certain SIMD features were not available anymore (e.g. SSE in that case)

In both cases I deleted the game configuration file and the same problem still occurs.

Quake II runs fine in software (safety mode) as soon as you change settings to OpenGL it locks up.

have you tried useing the latest MiniGL driver ?

The system doesn't use a 3dfx card.

wrote on 26.11.05 at 15:20:34:

In both cases I deleted the game configuration file and the same problem still occurs.

Could be something left in the registry in Windoze. I would swap the H.D.D. with a spare and do a fresh install to see what's up. Sounds like Obi-Wan experienced the same problem.

wrote on 26.11.05 at 20:20:49:

Could be something left in the registry in Windoze.

Not sure, there Quake series of games are pretty much stand alone, I have been swapping one GLQuake install from different machines around for about 5 years now.

The problem seems isolated to OpenGL, a friend thinks it is some sort of error in the microcode perhaps. I have a "stand alone" OpenGL test program I can run and see what happens.

Just an intresting problem, thought I would share in case it has happened before to anyone.

I always keep a spare H.D.D. around just for testing. I can't count the number of times or hours I've spent chasing a problem that I felt was hardware only to find out after a clean install, the problem went away.

Two of my favorite programs are Norton Ghost and Partition Magic. If you don't have an extra H.D.D. around you can split the drive into 2 partitions and make an image of the C: (on the new D drive) and reformat the C: Clean install, test, then restore the image from the D: and remove the D: partition and resize the C: back to the original size.

That might sound like a lot of work but it's really not. I've done it countless time when I don't feel like touching hardware.

1) Hooked up spare 10 gig drive

2) Auto installed XP home

3) Downloaded and installed VIA graphics drivers, rebooted.

4) Installed Quake 3, rebooted.

5) Ran Quake 3, LOCKED.

6) Downloaded and installed latest VIA chipset driver set, rebooted.

7) Ran Quake 3, LOCKED.

Strange huh?

im sure you already checked this, but here goes, alot of the mobo's that support the cpu/100 have a manual jumper that needs to be changed, every mobo ive seen come standard at the 133,166 and so on, jumper is only needed at 100. i cant remember why this is but even if it looks changed in bios it look for a jumper too.

well you could try another game in OpenGL like Unreal Tournament Game Of The Year Edition 1999 ver 4.36 if that does work then it's not a CPU problem it might be Quake 2 or 3 it's self and yes I did have a problem like this also the 2100+ ran everything like butter but the 1200 failed while starting the app, I reinstalled them and then they did cope better, my GFX was a 3dfx Voodoo3 3500 Tv AGP then hehe, used the latest MiniGL driver with the TB 1200 and my worries were gone, but if you don't have a 3dfx card installed hmm hard to say what it may be.

wrote on 27.11.05 at 04:36:07:

Motherboard is set at correct bus speed, on this board it's set at DIP switches on the PCB.

There's a small chance that your CPU is defective.
- Try the CPU in another board .

Another chance : The Integrated UniChrome graphics chip (drivers) don't support non-SSE CPU's
- Try running with a different graphics card.

wrote on 28.11.05 at 03:22:54:

Another chance : The Integrated UniChrome graphics chip (drivers) don't support non-SSE CPU's

A possible issue as the CPU is a bit older then the board.

Does anyone know when the AMD chips supported SSE?

Intresting-

http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/k7-series/km400/

No support for early Thunderbird CPU's listed even though the board supports 100/133/166/200 mhz bus speeds.

the first Athlon that supported SSE was the AthlonXP 1500+.

The Duron CPU doesn't support SSE.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K7/TYPE-Duron.html

So if the issue is the CPU not supporting SSE instructions and the Thunderbird doesn't have SSE support then the problem would also happen with a Duron chip (which I don't have to test that theory) if the driver requires SSE to function.

wrote on 28.11.05 at 22:04:29:

The AMD Duron 'Morgan' does support SSE instructions.
Please visit AMD Duron™ Processor Model 7 Data Sheet which can be found at AMD Duron Tech Docs :)

The newest AMD Duron CPU's (with 'Applebred' core) also supports SSE. The 'Applebred' core is nothing more or less than a 'Thoroughbred' core with 64KB L2.
The only AMD Duron which doesn't support SSE is the first AMD Duron (model 3). That Duron is also known as AMD Duron 'Spitfire' ;)

Even the link you gave states that the AMD Duron 'Morgan' does support SSE :

Quote:

Faster AMD Duron processors used a Morgan core. Like the Spitfire core is similar to the Thunderbird core, the Morgan core takes most of the features from the Athlon Palomino core. The core was tweaked for greater performance by implementing a full set of SSE instructions, adding a data prefetch mechanism and increasing the size of the Translation Look-aside Buffer.

I'm just going on what is noted on the CPU site, it's entirely possible it is incorrect.

On the other hand, if there is a Duron without SSE extensions and one with, then the VIA website should note that the chipset supports one but not the other.

To further confuse things, the ASUS website states the Athlon 1000 (200 MHz FSB) is fully supported.

A7V8X-MX SE

Athlon 1000 (200 MHz FSB) ALL ALL

Athlon 1000 (266 MHz FSB) ALL ALL

Athlon 1100 (200 MHz FSB) ALL ALL

Athlon 1133 (266 MHz FSB) ALL ALL

Athlon 1200 (200 MHz FSB) ALL ALL

Athlon 1200 (266 MHz FSB) ALL ALL

Athlon 1300 (200 MHz FSB) ALL ALL

Athlon 1333 (266 MHz FSB) ALL ALL

Athlon 1400 (200 MHz FSB) ALL ALL

Athlon 1400 (266 MHz FSB) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 1500+(Model 6)(Palomino) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 1600+(Model 6)(Palomino) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 1700+(Model 6)(Palomino) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 1700+(Model 8)(Thoroughbred) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 1800+(Model 6)(Palomino) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 1800+(Model 8)(Thoroughbred) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 1900+(Model 6)(Palomino) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 1900+(Model 8)(Thoroughbred) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 2000+(Model 10)(Thorton) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 2000+(Model 6)(Palomino) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 2000+(Model 8)(Thoroughbred) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 2100+(Model 6)(Palomino) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 2100+(Model 8)(Thoroughbred) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 2200+(Model 10)(Thorton) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 2200+(Model 8)(Thoroughbred) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 2400+(Model 10)(Thorton) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 2400+(Model 8)(Thoroughbred) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 2500+(333 MHZ FSB)(Model 10)(Barton) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 2600+(266FSB)(Model 8)(Thoroughbred) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 2600+(333 MHz FSB)(Model 10)(Barton) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 2600+(333FSB)(Model 8)(Thoroughbred) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 2700+(333FSB)(Model 8)(Thoroughbred) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 2800+(266 MHZ FSB)(Model 10)(Barton) ALL 1005

Athlon XP 2800+(333 MHZ FSB)(Model 10)(Barton) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 2800+(333FSB)(Model 8)(Thoroughbred) ALL ALL

Athlon XP 3000+(333 MHZ FSB)(Model 10)(Barton) ALL ALL

Duron 1000 (Model 7)(Morgan) ALL ALL

Duron 1100 (Model 7)(Morgan) ALL ALL

Duron 1200 (Model 7)(Morgan) ALL ALL

Duron 1300 (Model 7)(Morgan) ALL ALL

Duron 1400 (Model 8)(Applebred) ALL ALL

Duron 1600 (Model 8)(Applebred) ALL ALL

Duron 1800 (Model 8)(Applebred) ALL ALL

Sempron 2200+ (Model 10) ALL 1005

Sempron 2200+ (Model 8) ALL 1005

Sempron 2300+ (Model 8) ALL 1005

Sempron 2400+ (Model 8) ALL 1005

Sempron 2500+ (Model 8) ALL 1005

Sempron 2600+ (Model 8) ALL 1005

Sempron 2800+ (Model 10) ALL 1005

Sempron 2800+ (Model 8) ALL 1005

Sempron 3000+

3dfx Archive
http://www.falconfly.de/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl 3dfx Section >> Games >> Really odd OpenGL & AMD problem http://www.falconfly.de/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1132976746 Message started by gdonovan on 26.11.05 at 04:45:46