3dfx Archive - V4500PCI slower than V3000AGP?

RaptorZX3

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V4500PCI slower than V3000AGP?
24.10.14 at 00:58:47

i noticed, for some reasons, that my V4500 PCI seem to be slower than my V3000 AGP.

I tried the game "DethKarz" with the usual details i've put with the V3000 AGP. I usually have to overclock the V3000 to 183Mhz so the game won't have framerate drop under 60fps. (i use a fan on the heatsink) The V4500 is supposed to be faster than the V3000 in term of newer technology (kinda like the 486 100Mhz to Pentium 100Mhz), so can it be the PCI slot on the board? or the card itself?

And then, how much could i overclock safely the V4500 PCI?

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Thandor

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Re: V4500PCI slower than V3000AGP?
Reply #1 - 25.10.14 at 09:58:59

I don't agree with the comparison 486 100MHz versus Pentium 100MHz. The difference between them is much bigger than between a Voodoo3 and Voodoo4. (Raw) Performance-wise the difference between a Voodoo3 3000 and a Voodoo4 4500 isn't that big. The difference can be found in features (32-bit, AA, etc.).

Differences between PCI and AGP are small as well, just a matter of a few frames per second.

Do you run Dethkarz using the same settings? Verify the settings in the game, but also the settings of the Voodoo4. For example V-Sync or Anti-Aliasing can make a difference.

I don't have much experience overclocking the Voodoo4 4500 but if you have good quality RAM-chips and adequate cooling of the VSA-100 chip I reckon you can go to 183MHz as well.

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« Last Edit: 25.10.14 at 10:01:40 by Thandor »

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RaptorZX3 Full Member Offline Canadian 3DFX user Posts: 218 Montreal, Quebec (Canada) Gender:	Re: V4500PCI slower than V3000AGP? Reply #2 - 25.10.14 at 10:41:14 i might retry putting it back in and checking the different settings in Windows. Though i may have to change the fan on it, i think it's a 40mm on this heatsink. Do you think i could just use the Noctua 40mm fan on this?
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RaptorZX3

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Re: V4500PCI slower than V3000AGP?
Reply #3 - 25.10.14 at 11:47:56

all the settings are at default on the V4500 PCI, no AA or anything fancy.

at 166Mhz in Dethkarz i get about 52fps of average in the first map, and at 183Mhz, it crash (the card seem fine though, after a reboot, it played UT fine)

And when with the V3000 AGP + fan on it, at 183Mhz, i get about 62fps of average in the first map (i think it's the most demanding one FPS-wise)

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RaptorZX3 Full Member Offline Canadian 3DFX user Posts: 218 Montreal, Quebec (Canada) Gender:	Re: V4500PCI slower than V3000AGP? Reply #4 - 26.10.14 at 13:59:21 on the main board i'm using (MSI MS-6156VA) it says PCI v2.2, but it seem to run at 33Mhz only, no option for 66Mhz, so maybe this is the problem.
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ultima God Member Offline Always searching Posts: 876 The Netherlands Gender:	Re: V4500PCI slower than V3000AGP? Reply #5 - 27.10.14 at 23:29:09 well, normal standard pci slots all run 33Mhz......and voodoo is designed for it. the only voodoo I can think of that is designed to use PCI @ 66Mhz is the voodoo5 MAC edition
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RaptorZX3 Full Member Offline Canadian 3DFX user Posts: 218 Montreal, Quebec (Canada) Gender:	Re: V4500PCI slower than V3000AGP? Reply #6 - 28.10.14 at 03:48:59 if i'm going to get that card, i should look for a V6000 instead. Funny thing, peoples who own a V6000 are making it look like it's easy to find one for cheap, when it's completely the opposite (super hard to find and damn expensive(probably in the 500$+))
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goriath

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Re: V4500PCI slower than V3000AGP?
Reply #7 - 28.10.14 at 14:03:02

RaptorZX3 wrote on 26.10.14 at 13:59:21:

on the main board i'm using (MSI MS-6156VA) it says PCI v2.2, but it seem to run at 33Mhz only, no option for 66Mhz, so maybe this is the problem.

66MHz capability was introduced from 2.1 specs but you need 3.3V operation instead of the 5V normally found on standard desktop mainboards.

3.3V 32bit only PCI slot (notch at the left side) is very hard to find on common stuff, for this reason usually you have better luck going for those PCI-X slots instead (with extra pins for 64bit bus) easily found on server platforms.

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RaverX

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Re: V4500PCI slower than V3000AGP?
Reply #8 - 28.10.14 at 14:18:43

RaptorZX3 wrote on 28.10.14 at 03:48:59:

if i'm going to get that card, i should look for a V6000 instead.

Funny thing, peoples who own a V6000 are making it look like it's easy to find one for cheap, when it's completely the opposite (super hard to find and damn expensive(probably in the 500$+))

Voodoo5 6000 at 500$? Where, where? A fully functional V5 6000 goes for at least 2000 $ - and that is actually a very good price (if you can find it at 2000 $).

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RaptorZX3 Full Member Offline Canadian 3DFX user Posts: 218 Montreal, Quebec (Canada) Gender:	Re: V4500PCI slower than V3000AGP? Reply #9 - 28.10.14 at 14:32:21 ok then forget it, you need to have a really good job and a lot of money to spend on stuff like that...
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goriath

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Re: V4500PCI slower than V3000AGP?
Reply #10 - 28.10.14 at 15:40:52

ultima wrote on 27.10.14 at 23:29:09:

well, normal standard pci slots all run 33Mhz......and voodoo is designed for it.

the only voodoo I can think of that is designed to use PCI @ 66Mhz is the voodoo5 MAC edition

Voodoo4 PCI as well. And not sure about that but I think that Voodoo3 PCI can run at 66MHz too. Voodoo3 is an AGP compliant adapter (at least more than Voodoo5) so I think that PCI versions can do it as well. Theorically, also Quantum3D hardware like the Obsidian2 200SBiM-8440 TV should be able to run at 66MHz bus speed; the only exception which I'm aware of are AA5 boards, since I recall clearly an Hank Semenec's statement saying they are unfortunately capable of 33MHz only, despite their specifications.

To make a long story short, I can't confirm that right now but on paper I can't see any reason why every 3dfx card designed around PCI universal interface (both 5V and 3.3V) should not theorically run @66MHx PCI bus speed, aside from those exceptions due to problems involved in extremely complex layout designs.

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