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Regarding faster memory (Read 2944 times)
gdonovan
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Re: Regarding faster memory
Reply #30 - 10.01.07 at 21:58:50
 
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What I was replying to is that it wouldn't make much difference if a 5500 or 6000 would have 64MB per chip instead of 32MB they have now.!


A 4500 will show a difference in benchmarks, a 5500 might show an even greater amount since it can do more work them a 4500.
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jandarsun8
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Re: Regarding faster memory
Reply #31 - 10.01.07 at 22:11:18
 
How many 4500's have been modified that actaully work when done? And who'd done them? Just asking, I can solder pretty decently but I think this is way over my head, so was just wondering who's actually been able to make a go with the 4500's?
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Re: Regarding faster memory
Reply #32 - 10.01.07 at 22:21:06
 
Since FSAA takes away a decent amount of Video RAM, I'd say the performance difference might be enourmous if high Resolution + FSAA are used.

Otherwise, more Video RAM still means more Texture RAM available and therefor more Texture Detail (which IMHO still has the biggest impact on Quality)
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Obi-Wan_Kenobi
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Re: Regarding faster memory
Reply #33 - 10.01.07 at 23:42:19
 
a faster CPU + RAM + Mobo setup could change things also, I have read things that even a Barton 3000+ CPU witha KT333 Chipset based motherboard and 512MB of PC 2700 also was seen as a limited feature heh.

just hope that will be a way to test the 6000 in fater systems than just the old Barton 3000 setup, dunno if that AGP2PCI converter would be useful in 64Bit 66Mhz PCI-X slots [ I don't mean PCI-Express for the ones that do not know Wink ]

Benchmarks isn't everything it's more the games what show the truth, since that 3D mark for example is very Nvidia Pro based not a logic thing to use as tests.

if the core/ram speeds were like 220Mhz the 6K would handle the FSAA x8 feature alot better than @ 167Mhz core/mem so maybe the extra ram might help, but I don't think it will be noticeable in games, might be but I think more overall speed would help a lot more.

4x 32MB of 4.5 ns SDRAM chips would be a lot more interesting Smiley then you would know it will work, because a 6K can handle 4x 32MB of ram like a 5500 can handle 2x 32MB, though the idea of 4x 64MB may sound greatfull, the difference won't be big, History kinda showed us that with previous generations even the X1950 Pro 256MB & 512MB as GeForce 7800GS 256MB & 512MB cards showed us the minor change, it was actually a marketing act morely.

in some cases the 512Meg cards were slower than the 256Meg ones just because of the unused ram which was in the way lol.  Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: 10.01.07 at 23:50:57 by N/A »  
 
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gdonovan
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Re: Regarding faster memory
Reply #34 - 11.01.07 at 00:13:12
 
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Benchmarks isn't everything it's more the games what show the truth, since that 3D mark for example is very Nvidia Pro based not a logic thing to use as tests.


False logic- Even if the test is biased against 3dfx hardware *it shows a difference between two 3dfx boards*

Were not talking 3dfx vs NV but a 4500 vs a 4800, the only difference between the two boards is the ram amount.

A board running high res and AA will stutter if more textures have to be paged out of main memory, much less so with a video board with more ram. There are no shortage of Q3 levels with loads of textures a 4500 can run with good speed but will be hobbled by the limted ram.
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Re: Regarding faster memory
Reply #35 - 11.01.07 at 12:34:13
 
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...though the idea of 4x 64MB may sound greatfull, the difference won't be big, History kinda showed us that with previous generations even the X1950 Pro 256MB & 512MB as GeForce 7800GS 256MB & 512MB cards showed us the minor change, it was actually a marketing act morely.


Well, there's a hughe difference between a completely Video-RAM starved Board (Voodoo4/5) vs. a Board equipped beyond what even modern Games need (1900/7800 series).

Going from 32 to 64 is a major step (today!), as basically every Game can use upto 256MB Textures... every Game can outmax a Voodoo's Texture capacity. (that's just because this isn't 2001, but 2007... in 2001, you would have been absolutely right)

That's the diference compared to going from 256 to 512, which just becomes 'somewhat' interesting nowadays.
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« Last Edit: 11.01.07 at 12:35:10 by FalconFly »  
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Obi-Wan_Kenobi
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Re: Regarding faster memory
Reply #36 - 11.01.07 at 13:31:18
 
true there but 3D mark is too wrong to use , Using a nutral benchmark utillity is a far better way for testing the cards and the games that they were built for.

3D mark has a very bad rep here in the netherlands just because it's so Pro NV based.

But yes Gary I do agree that comparing the Voodoo4 4500 and 4800 in 3D mark does give a difference but it if you'd test it in game built for 3dfx cards or a benchmark that is more suitable for them you might see a bigger difference Cheesy

The most dutch people use the games the cards are going to run with, so do'n test's in Unreal Ver 2.26 for instance like Rolo01 did with his Voodoo 5 5000 AGP 32MB versus Voodoo 5 5500 AGP 64MB, Voodoo 5 6000 AGP 128MB, Voodoo4-2 4800 AGP 32MB DDR and Voodoo4 4500 AGP 32MB.

Do remember that a 5000 AGP with 32 MB is actually a castrated 5500 AGP 64MB Wink

His test's show totally no performance hit between the 5000 AGP as 5500 AGP using the same driver, now try to explain that?

The 5000 AGP has 2x 16MB SGRAM while the 5500 AGP has 2x 32MB SDRAM while the differences in Unreal Ver 2.26 were nihil!
This test gave me the idea that even a 6K with 4x 64MB would be done the difference would be minimal.

Otherwise ask Rolo01 he's the one that did this test quite a long time ago.

ah here it is Smiley
http://www.3dfxzone.it/enboard/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=784&SearchTerms=5000
...

well look at that the 5000 AGP is just in most cases faster than the 64 meg 5500 heh, but when FSAA x4 is uitlised the 64 meg card has no performance increase what so ever the 32MB card as the 64MB have exactly the same speed.

But if you want to use the cards in newr applications then I would agree that extra ram can be usefull Smiley especially apps like HL2, Call of Duty 1.51 things like that would love the extra ram, but games where the cards were built for like Unreal 2.26 as you see the change is very minimal and actually reversed.

that Voodoo4-2 4800 AGP is actually the Daytona AGP + TV-Out it runs core/mem 143Mhz but it has been OC'ed to 166Mhz core/mem, it has 64Bit DDR that's why it's somewhat slower in FSA x2 than the 4500 AGP, the 128 Bit SDRAM seem's to give the 4500 a little more bandwidth heh.

But yes a 4 x 64MB V6K would have a nice impact on newer games on higher reso's sure there Smiley
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« Last Edit: 11.01.07 at 16:27:27 by N/A »  
 
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gtxe
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Re: Regarding faster memory
Reply #37 - 11.01.07 at 16:58:57
 
hehe, Unreal doesn't use so much memory. It can run on a Voodoo Graphics with 4MB (2MB Framebuffer + 2MB Texture-Memory)!!!

The extra-memory is only usefull for higher-res textures...
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Re: Regarding faster memory
Reply #38 - 11.01.07 at 17:12:50
 
hehe, indeed.

This test was meaningless, it becomes interesting when using Games from 2001 and later (32MB Textures +)

It requires no testing to see that Unreal I does not benefit.
UT2003 would be the first to see a major improvement going from 32 to 64MB.
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Obi-Wan_Kenobi
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Re: Regarding faster memory
Reply #39 - 11.01.07 at 19:35:48
 
hmm true there Smiley Only it doesn't support glide which is a downside, so that point the ram upgrade can come in handy, well I'll test UT 2K3 on the 5K AGP this weekend thx for the tip FalconFly Smiley

The poor thing never gotta work so hard before haha we'll see what the 5K AGP will do, any reso suggestions? 1600 x 1200 x 32 a nice idea?

I'll use 98SE because that's the only OS where the 5K AGP does SLI the right way with the latest 3dfx WHQL drivers. Grin
... ... ... ...

they are the pics from my last test run, only tested U 2.26 and UT GOTYE 4.36 & Q3A 1.32.

But this year we're gonna give it some harder work with UT 2K3 hehe I hope he will take it Lips Sealed
Still don't understand it's won't perform properly under 2K in SLI mode, so odd.

One thing this is gonna be great fun for sure Smiley
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« Last Edit: 11.01.07 at 19:45:06 by N/A »  
 
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Re: Regarding faster memory
Reply #40 - 11.01.07 at 21:45:35
 
UT2003 should work in Lower Detail in 800x600 16bit, maybe still playable in 1024x768 16bit (depends on level loaded though).

1600x1200 32bit will work, but only give a nice Slideshow most of the time Wink
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Obi-Wan_Kenobi
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Re: Regarding faster memory
Reply #41 - 12.01.07 at 01:05:08
 
hahaha this is gonna be funny to do Grin

Okay I will be using the latest 3dfx WHQL driver any tips on how to get MesaFX working in UT2K3, I thought that there is a way, okay wrong thread to ask, I will make a separate topic for this one after I have installed 98SE tomorrow Wink

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« Last Edit: 12.01.07 at 01:05:36 by N/A »  
 
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gdonovan
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Re: Regarding faster memory
Reply #42 - 12.01.07 at 01:27:23
 
Quote:
His test's show totally no performance hit between the 5000 AGP as 5500 AGP using the same driver, now try to explain that?


Not an apples to apples test- A prototype board with unknown bios vs a production board?

I'll repeat since I'm not getting through- In a 4500 vs 4800 test (boards with same bios aside from extra bank being disabled) I have observed a difference in FPS between the two boards.

Ergo the extra ram made a difference and in an even more demanding application will have a larger impact as bigger texture come on line causing more and more page hits to main memory.

Try playing Quake3 with an 8MB Voodoo II vs a 12 MB board.
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Re: Regarding faster memory
Reply #43 - 12.01.07 at 06:30:45
 
I've run call of duty using MesaFx on my v4 4800. The game was very, very fluent. The game is not running so fluent on my v5 6000. Thats why the extra memory seems to have an big impact when using the large textures.
There is also strange that the games run not fluent on the v5 6000. The Problems apears on wide places, outside of the buildings especially.
Another problems is that the texture compresion im MesaFX are not optimized. By using the Wicked Opengl, the games runs very well on both platforms.
Br.
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« Last Edit: 12.01.07 at 06:31:32 by m14radu »  
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Obi-Wan_Kenobi
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Re: Regarding faster memory
Reply #44 - 12.01.07 at 17:01:53
 
well the 6000 should run CoD 1.51 very fluent it has 4 GPU's with each 32MB it should crush the 4800 with ease!, My V6K ran CoD 1.51 flawless @ max settings @ 1600 x 1200 x32 with Mesa FX 6.2.0.2 & AM 3.1 R11 under Win2K Pro:
... ... ...

no glitches no graphical errors nothing but fluid gameplay, was at a lan party Grin everyone was very supprised that a the 6K did so darn well @ max settings @ 1600 x 1200 x32 no AA though.

The Voodoo 5 6000 is a star in that game, if it's meant for heavy duty the 6K will always be the best at it for a 3dfx card, but yes with the 4x 64MB upgrade it might be able to use the FSAA x2 setting alot easier at that nice setting.

the setup I used for that test was:

AthlonXP 2700+ @ 2167Mhz default
1x 512MB PC 2700CL2.5 from Samsung Original
EPoX EP-8K3A+ Ver 1.1
3dfx Voodoo 5 6000 AGP 128MB Rev.A 3700 + Internal Hookup & PCI-Rework by Hank
SB Live 5.1
Win2K Pro + SP4 & Rollup 1 for SP4
DX 9.0c
AmigaMerlin 3.1 R11 & MesaFX 6.2.0.2 opengl32.dll

And Thanks for your help Gary & Hank for that 6K my thanx are still greatfull for you two blokes Wink
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« Last Edit: 12.01.07 at 17:03:25 by N/A »  
 
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