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Who do we look up to now? (Read 1798 times)
Lecram25
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #15 - 25.02.04 at 03:59:06
 
I've seen that link before, there was nothing ever really wrong with it.  Smiley
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Micha
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #16 - 25.02.04 at 08:17:07
 
i've this link before, it doesn't provide much informations wether there was a vsa-200 or not.
well, i think we agree there was a vsa-101, anyway.

anybody read my 1st post.......?  Tongue
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Andrew Boiu
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #17 - 25.02.04 at 09:25:19
 
Someone mentioned the Linux tux racer game. I have seen it running on a Banshee and it looked horrible, and very slowly. I don't know why, as when comparing this small game with Quake3 or NFS5 it is clear that the last two stress much more the graphic card. Anyway I am inclined to be against the person that said that the only videocard that run Tux Racer at decent framerates was a Geforce. I've seen it running very well on a Radeon 9000.

One way or another Linux drivers and support are very scarce now. If the situation will change in the future, it's unknown. However, more important is the lack of a unified and singular accelerated graphics instruction set in Linux. You don't have something like DirectX, that every card should acheve a certain compatibility. Without that we can't compare Windows an Linux in a normal way. That is their major problem, as games is the biggest and most profitable industry out there, which is mainly supporting and demanding faster CPU and GPU.

An alternative to 3dfx. I don't know. These days drivers are the least well and carefully designed pieces. I now that a good or a bad set of drivers can make quite a difference.
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dborca
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #18 - 25.02.04 at 09:59:05
 
Quote:
One way or another Linux drivers and support are very scarce now. If the situation will change in the future, it's unknown. However, more important is the lack of a unified and singular accelerated graphics instruction set in Linux. You don't have something like DirectX, that every card should acheve a certain compatibility. Without that we can't compare Windows an Linux in a normal way. That is their major problem, as games is the biggest and most profitable industry out there, which is mainly supporting and demanding faster CPU and GPU.


Well, the future is unknown for you, lad!  Grin "something like DirectX" exists for Linux, and it is called DRI! Shocked Direct Rendering Infrastructure... and is OpenGL-based. Okay, so it's not like DirectX, but it _IS_ an infrastructure. DRI drivers are developed inside Mesa...  Tongue But I am sure you knew that (you seem to know everything) and you were just testing us...  Grin
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« Last Edit: 25.02.04 at 10:01:42 by N/A »  
 
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Andrew Boiu
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #19 - 25.02.04 at 10:02:47
 
Perhaps...
Look at Tux racer. Is there any reason why it shows so strange looking textures and an appaling framerate on a Banshee? On Windows you see NFS5 or Quake running much faster and those are more complex. Can it have a connection with drivers optimisations? Perhaps, or maybe more than that...
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« Last Edit: 25.02.04 at 10:03:43 by Andrew Boiu »  
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DenisF
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #20 - 25.02.04 at 11:35:30
 
OR you've loaded X11 in 24bit mode which prevented DRI from launching (much like all pre-vsa100 voodoos can't render 32bit D3D/OGL) thus your game runs in pure software mode Smiley

Can be easily fixed by changing to 16bit.
for more info type glxinfo in the console.
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dborca
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #21 - 25.02.04 at 13:11:37
 
Quote:
Perhaps...
Perhaps, or maybe more than that...


Ye, perhaps! Or perhaps you know why, mr knows-everything!

Geez, I'm tired of people like you: you really like adding sheeps and cows together, don't ya? You always compare one game on a system/platform with another game on a different system/platform!

The answer is: I dunno why TuxRacer doesn't perform well, cos I haven't tested it!

I will augment your common-knowledge a bit and tell ya that the TDFX DRI driver has been surpassed (in both features and performance) by the original Glide driver -- the one found in MesaFX. That is, if you can make the difference... As for other HW, I cannot make any assertion... perhaps lack of cooperation from IHVs. nVidia and/or ATI haven't disclosed sourcecode yet!

Your point was:
Quote:
However, more important is the lack of a unified and singular accelerated graphics instruction set in Linux

And I replied to it. I never mentioned Tux! And if you're not tired lerning for today, I shall augment your common-knowledge even further: DRI is opensource and maintained on a volunteer basis. When BeyondDreams makes it to the top and smash down Microsoft with some secret plans, keep TungstenGraphics & co. in mind! Maybe fund them to develop their wonderful tools in such a manner to satisfy your needs.

Example: John Carmack of idSoftware donated 10000$ for Mesa. Brian Paul thought the best person to deserve them was Keith Whithwell and redirected them to him.

PS: DenisF is right! DRI switches to pure SW if it can't initialize something. The best way to test is glxinfo, glxgears. Some important environment variables: LIBGL_DEBUG (if memory serves). Useful utilities: ldd (to check the ELF chain).
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« Last Edit: 25.02.04 at 13:47:46 by N/A »  
 
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janskjaer
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #22 - 25.02.04 at 16:40:28
 
Whoa!  Shocked  Quite a popular topic I raised!  Grin

Regarding the VSA-200, I used this terminology merely on it's popularity as it is well-known and widely used in regard to the Rampage series.  I didn't mean to wrong anyone by giving it the wrong title. It was just the label that nearly everyone uses for it.

I did read your topic, Micha.  Thanks for your insights.  I agree with your opinions.  GrinI don't feel crazy for reading your ENTIRE views, but my eyes feel a little dizzy!  Roll Eyes

I see that many of your views are balanced towards the side of ATI. 

I must admit, that I have only had one graphics card since my 3dfx days.  That is a nVidia GeForce2 Pro DDR. Yes, you can slag me off all you want, but the fact is, was that I bought it as part of a new machine I was having built up in 2001.   Smiley
Back then, none of you would have had the bad feeling you have towards nVidia, that you have now, as 3dfx had only just gone bust, and nVidia had not told us then that they were not supporting 3dfx cards (if they had have announced it before I bought it, I would have had the same principles as FalconFly would have).
The other fact was that ATI weren't much of a real competitor back then and I wanted a good mid-range card.
The thing is, I still use the card now! I've never updated since!  Smiley
Reason why?: I ran Hidden & Dangerous 2 Demo yesterday on the GF2PRO @ 1280x960, Full Texture details, Trilinear filtering, 4x AA.  Ran at 30 FPS!  Shocked Wink
Still a brilliant card! If I had to upgrade today though, I wouldn't know which way to turn! Undecided
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amp_man
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #23 - 25.02.04 at 21:30:17
 
Quote:
Someone mentioned the Linux tux racer game. I have seen it running on a Banshee and it looked horrible, and very slowly. I don't know why, as when comparing this small game with Quake3 or NFS5 it is clear that the last two stress much more the graphic card. Anyway I am inclined to be against the person that said that the only videocard that run Tux Racer at decent framerates was a Geforce. I've seen it running very well on a Radeon 9000.


hey, how about actually reading my post before you go off on some lame rampage about it? My card, a GF2 GTS, is running in a P2 333 w/128mb SDRAM on Red Hat 9, and I mainly use Gnome, if it matters. When I tried running the game the first time, on the driver included with RH9, it ran like shit, even the menus were like .5fps. So I installed the Nvidia Forceware Linux drivers, and the game was playable, even better than my V5/P2 350, when that was running the same OS.

Also, you can't argue with the fact that Nvidia''s support of linux users is better. Check out their forums here, and you will note an entire section dedicated to Linux and Linux drivers. Where are ATI's support forums? I'll answer that for you: they don't exist.  And besides, I never even mentioned ATI in my original post, I was referring to the fact that better, updated drivers existed than those that came with the OS, because when I was using the Voodoo 5, MesaFX wasn't out yet, and I didn't know about Mesa itself.
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dborca
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #24 - 26.02.04 at 07:43:46
 
Quote:
...that came with the OS, because when I was using the Voodoo 5, MesaFX wasn't out yet, and I didn't know about Mesa itself.

Don't worry, amp! There are many people who never heard of Mesa before. And some of them already started emanating highly "professional" opinions about it!

"Maybe if Mesa and Amigamerlin, along with Koolsmokey will work together, this thing could become reality" - Boiu_Andrei
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Micha
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #25 - 26.02.04 at 12:13:34
 
hey ya, thanks for reading James, and i agree w/ the Geforce2 thingy: mine also still runs games like Halo @ 40fps /Thunderbird 1.4GHz & 1GB RAM. bet that's because this ol' directx7 card can't perform all the shaders (since it has no pixel shaders & only vertex shaders 1.1) -> no acceleration, no performance hit in this respect (i mean e.g. shadows done by pixel shaders can't be activated in Halo on this card, so there's more space for other rendering etc.)
@ Daniel: i'm amazed about the john carmack story you mentioned! anyway, great work!
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« Last Edit: 26.02.04 at 12:14:58 by Micha »  

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Lecram25
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #26 - 26.02.04 at 15:49:09
 
Quote:
Don't worry, amp! There are many people who never heard of Mesa before. And some of them already started emanating highly "professional" opinions about it!

"Maybe if Mesa and Amigamerlin, along with Koolsmokey will work together, this thing could become reality" - Boiu_Andrei



Smiley
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| AMD Athlon XP (Barton) 2800+ @ 3200+ (11x200) | Cooler Master Jet 7 | ABIT NF7-S Rev 2.0 (nForce 2) | Corsair TWINX1024-3200C2 | Sapphire ATi Radeon 9500np>9700np | Sound Blaster Live! X-Gamer 5.1 | 3dfx VoodooTV 200 PCI | Western Digital 40GB & 120GB HDD | Pioneer 106s DVD | LG 52x24x52 CDRW | Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Theater 5.1 DTT3500 Digital Speakers | &&&&"Maybe if Mesa and Amigamerlin, along with Koolsmokey will work together, this thing could become reality" - Boiu_Andrei
 
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FalconFly
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #27 - 26.02.04 at 21:53:29
 
*g*

Yes, that was a true Classic Grin
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amp_man
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #28 - 27.02.04 at 02:30:17
 
Quote:
Don't worry, amp! There are many people who never heard of Mesa before. And some of them already started emanating highly "professional" opinions about it!

"Maybe if Mesa and Amigamerlin, along with Koolsmokey will work together, this thing could become reality" - Boiu_Andrei



LMAO! But I hate to be put in the same category as "some" people  Wink

/Off-Topic: I just went to the Beyond Dreams website (which, FYI, is not beyonddreams.com, although that site was somewhat more interesting) and thought this would be an interesting little snippet for some of you out there:
"having a good image is more than necessary"
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Andrew Boiu
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #29 - 27.02.04 at 09:35:09
 
What a luck we have people to say: "Oh, good image is more than necessary"... News, right? By the way, this is pretty useless talking and very off topic, so we shall rather stick to the point.
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