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wich is better 98 or me ? (Read 1222 times)
FalconFly
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Re: wich is better 98 or me ?
Reply #15 - 05.09.03 at 19:48:15
 
Personally, I really hate to work with WinME.

Everytime I have to fix someone's Machine, and find WinME installed, things get quite alot more difficult to fix.

They tried to hide MS-DOS, which is a powerful Tool to assist, when Windows blew up, or something needs to be fixed while Windows should not or cannot launch anymore.
--------------------------
WinXP is a whole different deal :
With security and privacy risks lurking everwhere, this "OS" I consider the worst one ever invented. It needs minimum AntiSpy plus an excellent Firewall, just to keep it from compromising Data.
In the meantime, they could have appropriately named it "WinNSA" or "WinHD" (Homeland Defense).

(in the old times, Firewalls were invented to protect against attacks from outside, but Microsoft reversed this trend : you have to fight the OS now)

Many new Patches (some of which are critical for System safety) from MS carried Trojans, who often bypassed or reset important security settings.
(and they learned that it was possible to infect older, otherwise relatively clean Systems like Win2000 and even Win9x).
-----------------
I heard "new Hardware" causes trouble under Win98 ?

I type this from a Win98SE, acting as a 24/7 server for 20 other Machines (running no less than 10 different Operating Systems).

It is powered by an ASUS A7V8X (KT400), AthlonXP 2800+ and 512MB Corsair PC400 CL2. The ATI Radeon 9700pro does the Video, the Soundblaster Live! takes care of the Acoustics Smiley .

As said, this machine is running 24/7, 365 days a year (unless I leave for a longer time).

On several similar Systems, I even run Win95A or Win95OSR1 (since it was cheap, and the machines are running as numbercrunchers) Grin
New Hardware is no Problem, it just takes a bit of knowledge.
-----------------
The Gaming usually requires me to reboot the Server about once every 3-6 days to keep things smooth.
(or when I screw something up myself, which I like doing from time to time Grin )

All other machines run 24/7, with Win95, Win95OSR1, Win98 and Win98SE achieving uptimes of several thousand hours without problems.
(I believe my record machine was running Win95A, with an uptime of about 7000 hours; was interrupted by a power outage Tongue )
-------------------

Due to the current way Microsoft is headed (and where they are already), each new Installation is done with Linux, so I'm slowly migrating away from Windows alltogether Grin
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Re: wich is better 98 or me ?
Reply #16 - 05.09.03 at 20:33:04
 
Ok, I can agree with you falconfly, because you make solid points that are based in fact.

You didn't just bash Microsoft or the Oses and then say I hate it becuase I have to click....start...or something like that.

I have expirienced these things in which you speak. And the problems have been proven to be true that you have mentioned about 9x/2000/XP, yeah I agree it is a Win2K service pack, with some add-ons.

Win98SE, yeah it does work with new technology, but doesn't 2000/XP take better advantage of it?

Also with 2000 and XP as you have no 16-bit and 32-bit code mixing grafted on top of DOS which always has been the foundation of the 9x code base.

I myself have no complaint about XP, I use ZoneAlarm, Norton Anti-virus, Ad-Aware and Spybot SD as well as a customized hots file for the ad server and that pretty much covers it security wise.


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Re: wich is better 98 or me ?
Reply #17 - 05.09.03 at 21:35:12
 
Hm, Win2k/XP is certainly build around newer Hardware, and some things are likely a tad more optimized.

But I found that especially XP loses any such advantage due to its insane Overhead.
(I have this running on my only Notebook; this thing did not run anything else after 2 weeks of me trying everything I could think of with 98/2000 and Linux Tongue )

I cleaned mine as far as I could, but still it easily uses up some 100MB of RAM just for running idle, doing nothing Roll Eyes

Generally, a newer OS has the advantage of delivering useful standard Drivers for many base components (which otherwise need to be manually installed step-by-step).
But this advantage is reduced with time, since all Hardware after the release warrants newer Drivers as usual.

The early days, where people would still use MS-DOS Applications (requiring full blown config.sys & autoexec.bat config's) alongside an Installed Win95 are long over for most, so there really isn't much left of 16bit a few seconds after booting Win9x Wink

People like Procerus (and others) however, show that it is still easily possible to get the best of both worlds.
And finally, with the establishment of 32bit DOS-Extenders, all later MS-DOS Games also ran 32bit, almost just like Windows.

The thing I like about MS-DOS probably best right now, is really that it allows to troubleshoot Hardware or Windows itself from the lowest level possible. Without it, alot of machines I had to fix or clean of Viruses, would not have worked afterwards.
-----------
WinXP of couse does run fine, but I well remember many people come to me to advice, because many important settings were all of a sudden scattered all across the GUI (something I really hate myself).
================
Most people like me don't like the Ideas behind XP, more than the OS itself.
With TCPA lurking in the future, I (and others) see a development which effects and original Idea's I simply cannot tolerate anymore.

Bluescreens and typical Windows quirrels we all learned to handle (to some extend). But the already existing and upcoming "big brother" approach to the Operating System that is supposed to serve me and my Computer are a completely different playing field.

Bundeled with the already known facts about Microsoft's Past, present plans and future (as far as known) lay a catastrophic path, I just will not walk onto.

On a personal Note :
In it's current development state, I don't even like working with Linux too much. It's cool after all is setup and running (and free Smiley ), but it can be a tremendous pain to get there in the first place Tongue
And it did cost me one thing : time... LOTS of time...

At some times, I thought the developers of certain Applications must have been either drunk, or on drugs when they wrote them *g*
----------------
In the end, I'd say :
Whatever floats your boat.
Above is just my "best available" assessment of things, with a future prediction.
For me, that's enough to jump off the Windows Train alltogether if needed.
Others might not even notice, or care in the first place.
After all, it's just a Computer... but these become more important and powerful in today's lifes every day.

PS.
A hard lesson in Windows Risks the United States just received it seems :
An infected SCADA Center runnnig OLE for Process Control (Windows based Software for Power Grid Visualisation & Telemetry control) via COM/DCOM apparently has been enough to lose control.
Indications are, that W32.Blaster spread via the internal Maintenance TCP lines of the Power Providers (who so far slowly migrated to a standard Windows envroinment over time)...

Maybe that was a useful 'wakeup-call' Roll Eyes
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Re: wich is better 98 or me ?
Reply #18 - 06.09.03 at 01:29:42
 
You speak the truth, what you say makes sense!  Smiley

Whatever floats our boat -- we all have our prefrences, too true!  Wink

In regards to future versions of Windows, I have been reading/looking into the next iteration of Windows (longhorn) and I don't like what I am seeing -- needing a powerfull 3D accelerator just to run it because they are making it a 3D OS -- so this can't be good for gaming - but they say they are deisgning it so it's better for gaming....contradictory I'd say -- well that's all fine and great, but I don't care about the "pretties", at least to a certain extent.

Windows XP is more than likely that last OS from them I will use, becuase of this and the security flaws, etc. It's good but -- the future form here on out ain't lookin' so bright.

I mean you can fit the Linux kernel on the floppy and boot off it, with Windows you can't quite pull that off.

Windows does tend to use a lot of resources just sitting there, unfortunately.  Undecided

I hope Linux gets caught up to where it can compete and we can run all our apps, games etc. on it that normally run in windows. It's close, but not quite there.  Undecided

Plus this would give MS a run for their money, causing cometition and maybe they'll improve/re-design the OS much better than they have thus far. Grin

Time will tell I guess. . . .  Wink


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Re: wich is better 98 or me ?
Reply #19 - 08.09.03 at 10:04:22
 
Quote:
Windows XP is more than likely that last OS from them I will use, becuase of this and the security flaws, etc. It's good but -- the future form here on out ain't lookin' so bright.

I mean you can fit the Linux kernel on the floppy and boot off it, with Windows you can't quite pull that off.

Windows does tend to use a lot of resources just sitting there, unfortunately.  Undecided

I hope Linux gets caught up to where it can compete and we can run all our apps, games etc. on it that normally run in windows. It's close, but not quite there.  Undecided

Plus this would give MS a run for their money, causing cometition and maybe they'll improve/re-design the OS much better than they have thus far. Grin

[/size]


Even if the linux kernel can be on one disk, you still would do near nothing without a Linux system installed on disk. On comparison, with MS-DOS on one disk you can do near everything you imagine and do in Linux or WIndows but much more efficiently, including networking and games.

Resources on newer WIndows OS'es are not used as they should. Check the world forgotten Windows 3.1. Can run TONS of apps using just 1 Mb of Ram for all those apps, whenever Win XP, would require only for Notepad alone 4 Mb... And apps were very efficiently designed back in the days of Windows 3.1.

Give MS a run? No chance. MS is everywhere and appreciated (sometimes for true values): federal, industry, schools, home, company users... Linux might hit network services and homw users or company users, but no more than that...

Linux may not compete in a true manner as long as:
1) It remains a fairly closed system, with few privileges and rights to modify and see the structure of the OS (as it's possible to enter everywhere and see everything inside Windows).

2) They will not concentrate on efficiency and configuration capabilities. As long as I cannot change as an user the way in which Linux accesses my hard drive and uses it (As I can in windows), nothing good.

3) If they don't make the installation of Linux simpler and more transparent to the user.

4) If they don't make the huge start-up time shorten seriously, they would never match the "supposed poor designed Windows".

5) If Linux will really make a common usage of activating services when needed. Use 0 CPU time and RAM if no Networking activity. When there appears activity, take CPU time and memory, than return.
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Re: wich is better 98 or me ?
Reply #20 - 08.09.03 at 20:22:38
 
snipped of some of the quotted text here

Quote:
These problems disapeared with Me using the latest Amigamerlin drivers . Basically XP drivers need more work , until than i`m sticking to all around funtionality , and full direct x 8.1 compliance .

that said the voodoo 3 runs extremely well game wise on xp , shame it didn`t have more ram . Xp is greedy on
display resourses .



with Windows XP - it -can- be greedy with resourecs and RAM, but you have to disable services (or have a batch file that stops the service when you want to play games) so that the bare minimum that you need is running, as well as no programs running in the back ground.

My 3Dfx system that is on XP is:
Pentium III - 450
320MB PC-100
Voodoo 5500AGP

And it runs just great, by disabling services as mentioned.

With the new AmigaMerlin this changes things with XP, now it is more stable and performs better. Plus it is more comptible with DirectX and OpenGL than it was before.

There were some games/benchmarks that wouldn't make it with me or halt up. Now that hasn't happed with these new drivers.

XP - does require some hacks on top of disabling the un-necessary services, and it will run decently if not better.

Emulated DOS works good enough for what I need. Heck patch Quake1 with Id-softs MiniGL patch (then update it with the newer 3Dfx MiniGL - for better quality/performance) and it will run under Windows XP -- since it is now running the game through the Win32 (OpenGL) executable, but it is a DOS game running in XP technically  Wink

But for me I no longer have a need to use the command line, so go figure since Windows XP isn't providing me with Real Mode DOS, it wouldn't be usefull for me, but we all have our prefrences -- and god bless ya for it  Grin
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Re: wich is better 98 or me ?
Reply #21 - 09.09.03 at 09:39:46
 
Quote:
Luckily for the Linux'User, Mandrake or Suse make the installation easier

and don't forgot something : Linux was/is a free OS

it needs "simply" some knowledge, time and patience   Grin


Easier, not configurable. And easier as MS do, is hard to beat...

Even if Linux is free, it is still a questionable aspect if Linux is a viable alternative to Windows. At least for now. It has to evolve at least 5 more good years to be able to compete maybe in the Windows 95 field of users.
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Re: wich is better 98 or me ?
Reply #22 - 09.09.03 at 11:41:46
 
Quote:
When i see the Linux World, Linux seems an alternative to MS... perhaps the only since Beos is dead...

For an young OS, 12 years old now (since L.B. Torvalds sent his famous message in the NewsGroups), the system is nice and without big enterprise behind...

Hope only that Linux will stay Linux

Anyway, everybody is free...


12 years. Linux has evolved, and it's no doubt. But still if someone needs a simpler and faster solution, they choose MS. Also, the kernel shows some power as oposed to MS, but in a very relative manner. Linux should be more directed to efficiency, if he is to won over a good deal of the enthusiast PC users, which is a field in which he should compete, if not for simplicity, then for quality, speed, performance and efficiency, should Linux be based upon.

However, things don't go in this direction, nor for Linux, nor for other OS'es. All OS's tend to be too big, too slow, and too keen on using a better GUI, rather than a better kernel. Yes, Linux is looking nearly as good as MS, but it's not as efficient as a fine tuned Windows. And this should make the Linux builder aware that speed should be more important sometimes than the looks, at least for end-users, or companies, who want to protect and minimize their investments, and choose linux.

Linux also lacks a major stronghold: an unified, yet simple and fast environment to build apps that communicate intimately, or through the OS, and not the tons of languages you have to learn to use each and every part of your PC, with the overall constraints on where a language ends, and where should you use a different one.

If Linux will make such a development environment, it would have the most strong force by their side: professional, trained programmers. If not, Linux will end up with the slight advantage of beeing free, and because of the big CD's filled with apps build more or less by amateurs and profesionals, but which share near nothing in common, and are builded using different concepts, and nearly oposite languages, or multiple ones.

If Linux should bet on a card, that should be a comprehensive, full language, to handle all of the PC's devices in an unified manner, and with a high level of abstractisation (you never now on which specific PC you are operating, but things go without a problem, and you don't handle with specific vendor strings for some devices).
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Re: wich is better 98 or me ?
Reply #23 - 13.09.03 at 02:08:47
 
Interesting... and I still prefer DOS or Unix to this day...  I would agree with Boiu Andrei (for once) about XP, it is a commercialy oriented OS geared towards maximizing profits and monitoring the end consumer base.

Instead of sleaker more efficient OS's we appear to be getting fatter hungrier ones.  This is bad news for the gamer and in reality every type of user...

The points about XP being netwok oriented.  It is of course a '2k service pack' and 2k itself is a direct WinNT evolution...

Win9x may be acobbled together 'program' that runs 'on top of' the Ms-DOS operating system, but it is more suitable for a standalone machine running games to their full potential... that is if it's set up correctly. Wink
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Re: wich is better 98 or me ?
Reply #24 - 13.09.03 at 02:18:31
 
Quote:
that is if it's set up correctly. 


lol, you must be talking about WinME. That OS was extremely unstable for me. IMHO, 98SE seems to be the most stable OS for the average gamer; as well as for compatability.
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Re: wich is better 98 or me ?
Reply #25 - 13.09.03 at 02:21:42
 
It's not useless, just borken in some parts it is still a good OS.

Quote:
lol, you must be talking about WinME. That OS was extremely unstable for me. IMHO, 98SE seems to be the most stable OS for the average gamer; as well as for compatability.

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Re: wich is better 98 or me ?
Reply #26 - 13.09.03 at 02:24:43
 
Quote:
It's not useless, just borken in some parts it is still a good OS.


Ok now, you must really have comprehension issues. I'm not going to start anything, but I never said it was "useless". I said it was "unstable".
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Re: wich is better 98 or me ?
Reply #27 - 13.09.03 at 02:46:12
 
Quote:
lol, you must be talking about WinME. That OS was extremely unstable for me. IMHO, 98SE seems to be the most stable OS for the average gamer; as well as for compatability.


No I was referring to Win98SE...  I agree as far as 98SE goes...
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Re: wich is better 98 or me ?
Reply #28 - 15.09.03 at 10:03:41
 
Windows ME is a near failure as compared to Win98SE. XP might seems somewhat, as related to 2000. And we all know why: look, oveload, spyware.

Of course, XP has a big hand full of Aces in hand: marketing, strong, powefull, payed magazines, reviews, surveys. But in certain aspects as related to the strong NT base of system, it seems it has blurred into "yet another ME", leaving little to nothing left from the good design, reliable of Windows NT.

I don't think XP will convince a brained buyer to purchase it because it looks like a kids toy, or because it boots faster than 98 or 2000, or because when you hit "the magic three" the end task appears instant. If this is at a cost 3 times more than 98 (hardware, memory, price), to get the same speed as in 98, in this case XP would never win against XP...

A good point was that ME wasn't however that much advertised, and in such a lying manner as XP

"NOW YOUR PROBLEMS WITH WINDOWS ARE OVER. BRING THE BEST WITH OUR EXPERIENCE. BEST RELIABILITY, DRIVERS, NETWORK, EASE OF USE..."

Microsoft TV shut down...

...
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Re: wich is better 98 or me ?
Reply #29 - 19.09.03 at 07:56:26
 
I think you put the nail in the coffin on this one -- that was dead on!  Wink

Quote:
Windows ME is a near failure as compared to Win98SE. XP might seems somewhat, as related to 2000. And we all know why: look, oveload, spyware.

Of course, XP has a big hand full of Aces in hand: marketing, strong, powefull, payed magazines, reviews, surveys. But in certain aspects as related to the strong NT base of system, it seems it has blurred into "yet another ME", leaving little to nothing left from the good design, reliable of Windows NT.

I don't think XP will convince a brained buyer to purchase it because it looks like a kids toy, or because it boots faster than 98 or 2000, or because when you hit "the magic three" the end task appears instant. If this is at a cost 3 times more than 98 (hardware, memory, price), to get the same speed as in 98, in this case XP would never win against XP...

A good point was that ME wasn't however that much advertised, and in such a lying manner as XP

"NOW YOUR PROBLEMS WITH WINDOWS ARE OVER. BRING THE BEST WITH OUR EXPERIENCE. BEST RELIABILITY, DRIVERS, NETWORK, EASE OF USE..."

Microsoft TV shut down...

...

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