3dfx Archive - Think Tank

janskjaer Ex Member	Re: Think Tank Reply #15 - 26.03.04 at 14:27:34 Ok, Micha here goes: Some water is in a strong bottle. (a) How could you make the H2O level fall without heating, moving the bottle or changing the amount of water inside? (b) How could you make the H2O level rise under the same conditions and without putting anything else inside?
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amp_man Ex Member	Re: Think Tank Reply #16 - 26.03.04 at 20:32:35 Quote: Ok, Micha here goes: Some water is in a strong bottle. (a) How could you make the H2O level fall without heating, moving the bottle or changing the amount of water inside? (b) How could you make the H2O level rise under the same conditions and without putting anything else inside? by dropping and picking up the bottle?
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janskjaer Ex Member	Re: Think Tank Reply #17 - 27.03.04 at 13:55:41 Quote: by dropping and picking up the bottle? How could you make the H2O level fall without heating, moving the bottle or changing the amount of water inside? Come on amp_man, put your brain into gear and give me at least a half valid response!
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paulpsomiadis God Member Offline -=3Dfx still rox!=- Posts: 2011 Newcastle U.K. Gender:	Re: Think Tank Reply #18 - 27.03.04 at 14:34:19 The bottle of water is in a pressure chamber... 1. Pressure rises, water level is compressed (get's lower). 2. Pressure falls, water level expands (get's higher) Nuff said! 8)
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agrelaphon YaBB Newbies Offline Spirtoulis Posts: 33 Kozani Gender:	Re: Think Tank Reply #19 - 27.03.04 at 19:06:55 Quote: The bottle of water is in a pressure chamber... 1. Pressure rises, water level is compressed (get's lower). 2. Pressure falls, water level expands (get's higher) Nuff said! Liquids don't get pressurised, gases do (and I think Ihave some ) Anyway, why don't you wait for it to evaporate ???
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amp_man

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Re: Think Tank
Reply #20 - 27.03.04 at 23:01:46

Quote:

Liquids don't get pressurised, gases do (and I think Ihave some Embarrassed

)
Anyway, why don't you wait for it to evaporate ???

Nope, you're wrong, paul's got it. If you pressurize the bottle, the air pressure will force the liquid to take up less space, and if you create a vacuum inside the bottle, you can actually get it to the point where the H₂O will become vapor. Should have thought about that, we were playing with a pressure cooker and vacuum sealed comressor about a month ago in physics.

EDIT: nothing can evaporate in a "strong bottle", unless it has a way to escape.

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« Last Edit: 27.03.04 at 23:02:36 by N/A »

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FalconFly

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Re: Think Tank
Reply #21 - 27.03.04 at 23:17:32

For all I know, Water in its liquid form cannot be compressed ???

If you manage to pull out a 10 Liter buck of Water from 11000 Metres depth, it should still occupy a volume of 10 Liters on the surface...

And that's an area exposed to a hydrostatic pressure of 11000 metric tons (tons per m²), or for the US System 7.1 Tons per Sqare inch (!)

---------------
edit

Well, I'll be damned Grin

Water can be compressed, but the pressures required to do so, simply don't exist in our nature.
So it is usually referred to as "uncompressable", but technically, it is possible.
(albeit somewhat theoretic)

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« Last Edit: 27.03.04 at 23:21:24 by FalconFly »

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batracio

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Re: Think Tank
Reply #22 - 27.03.04 at 23:36:00

Quote:

(a) How could you make the H2O level fall without heating, moving the bottle or changing the amount of water inside?

Cool the bottle to 4 ºC, at this temperature water reaches its maximum density -> lower volume, lower level.

Quote:

(b) How could you make the H2O level rise under the same conditions and without putting anything else inside?

Freeze the bottle to 0º C, density of ice is lower than of liquid water -> higher volume, higher level.

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« Last Edit: 27.03.04 at 23:39:03 by batracio »

Why make trillions when we could make... billions?

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Micha Senior Member Offline Got milk? Posts: 317 Gender:	Re: Think Tank Reply #23 - 28.03.04 at 18:48:10 oh sorry, was off for some days.. anyway, can i damage the bottle?
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Micha Senior Member Offline Got milk? Posts: 317 Gender:	Re: Think Tank Reply #24 - 29.03.04 at 09:53:40 just a joke i guess batracio is right. maybe you have to cool the bottle even more for (b), dependent on the temperature at the beginning..
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dborca

Ex Member

Re: Think Tank
Reply #25 - 29.03.04 at 15:12:18

Quote:

just a joke Wink

i guess batracio is right. maybe you have to cool the bottle even more for (b), dependent on the temperature at the beginning..

At 0 Celsius, you'll have a mixture of water and ice (it's an equilibrium). Under 0 Celsius, you'll get ice!

The thing is, you need to stick to water. I believe batracio is right. The water has this anomaly, just like Bismuth (Bi). And Falcon is also right: the water is not compressible. Not in practice!

Anyway if cooling is the answer, the whole riddle sounds kinda lame, cos cooling is exact the opposite of heating, but both of them imply heat (or lack thereof). Any sane person that knows things dilate when heated, do also know of this water anomaly.

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janskjaer Ex Member	Re: Think Tank Reply #26 - 29.03.04 at 16:32:15 Quote: The bottle of water is in a pressure chamber... 1. Pressure rises, water level is compressed (get's lower). 2. Pressure falls, water level expands (get's higher) Nuff said! 8) agrelaphon is correct, the water cannot be pressurised to make the H2O level rise or fall, still have same volume. Next..
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janskjaer

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Re: Think Tank
Reply #27 - 29.03.04 at 16:35:03

Quote:

Cool the bottle to 4 ºC, at this temperature water reaches its maximum density -> lower volume, lower level.

Freeze the bottle to 0º C, density of ice is lower than of liquid water -> higher volume, higher level.

Incorrect, but very close! Wink

Your part B answer is closer to the answer, than your first part.

Because what happens if the temperature is already set to 4 degrees celcius? Tongue

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janskjaer Ex Member	Re: Think Tank Reply #28 - 29.03.04 at 16:37:57 batracio is wrong, but is on the right lines and sooo close! I'll give it a week, starting today. If no-one gets the answer, I will post it. I'm also giving it a week cos I'm on holiday over the next few days and I'll be out of contact! So I'll see you soon!
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dborca

Ex Member

Re: Think Tank
Reply #29 - 29.03.04 at 16:56:09

Quote:

batracio is wrong

Batracio is RIGHT. That might not be the answer to your riddle, but batracio is right, nevertheless!

I think I know the answer to your riddle. I guess I missed the semantic differences between water and H2O. Water is more than H2O; it is H2O in liquid form.

Anyway, it IS related to thermal properties of water (and I use water loosely here).

And since your riddle is a mixture of scientific facts and gotchas, one could argue that -- philosophically speaking -- water = 99% H2O (more or less). Grin

Pure H2O is bad for health: try drinking distilled water for a while. Fishes die in pure H2O.

PS: and ice could dilate so much, that it can break the bottle. Every car driver knows that! Grin

So I'm wondering, how "hard" is your bottle?

PPS: this reduces to a problem where the initial conditions matter.

Next.

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« Last Edit: 30.03.04 at 13:30:47 by N/A »

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