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Who do we look up to now? (Read 1836 times)
Micha
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #30 - 27.02.04 at 10:01:22
 
sorry guys, even that I'm of the same opinion as you, i have to agree with Andrei: stick to the topic or create another one!
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« Last Edit: 27.02.04 at 10:02:04 by Micha »  

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Andrew Boiu
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #31 - 27.02.04 at 10:13:43
 
I think that the most important question we can put these days is not what is the most powerfull graphics card, but if there is trully one to have good drivers. All the videocards, no matter how good they are, they are rushed onto the market, bought by hundreds of users, only to later realise that the advertised performance and compatibility is very, very far from real life.

In fact with every new game you wonder if your card or your system can run that game. We are far from the 1980's era were a single component upgrade would have meaned a big difference, and you almost never loosed compatibility. Yes the games were not too complex, but then again...

Today I have to fully agree with the people that say: if you want no compatibilty, drivers nightmares, disk space problems, windows crashes and errors, just something simple that just does what it's build for, we look smiling at the games consoles. I'm not talking about fakes such as Xbox (Geforce + Pentium, needs a media player software to play movies), but real ones as PS2 (and PS3, which is currently under development).

Coin on coin, the console is much cheaper and you spend less money with it, but you can't do everything with it. That's the only downside. And after a while you have to buy a new one...
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Micha
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #32 - 27.02.04 at 10:28:45
 
different times, man..reflect about this simple point:
there were just a few games in the 80's compared to nowadays. just every day we got more of them! do you think you can deliver a driver which can fully support all games without getting any problems? see, that's not possible nowadays. you would need 100 people working around the clock or something like that..

concerning game consoles:
dude, do you know why nearly everbody who wants to play games owns a M$ PC system?? because it's (despite to consoles) a scalable system! since 3dfx introduced the voodoo1 the pc raised to become the gaming console..and that's the fact why I'm still posting here! we've now even more quality w/ faster performance on pc games compared the a crappity smackin' gaystation. that's why we buy computers, isn't it?
the only console really useful is - in my opinion - the nintendo gamecube which can deliver full tv resolution unlike most other consoles.
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FalconFly
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #33 - 27.02.04 at 10:33:46
 
* lol *

Modern Consoles can quickly become significantly more expensive than any decent PC.

Count all the basic add-on equipment you need (Controllers, Memory Cards etc.), and the hefty prices for Games, and you're almost at a normal PC's cost after a while.

And when it comes to your hatred (can't explain it otherwise) to modern Hardware...
Well, my Card worked on everything I threw onto it.

With the only difference being :
- heaps better visual Quality
- much more performance (actually far beyond what I or others expected)

And as you said, the Options left with a Game-cube/box or alike are extremely limited.
I've seen a number of Games for the latest Boxes, and I was very disappointed. What I saw and heard from those things was far below what I expected. Graphics was "okay" at best, but already far behind what PC's can do.

To me, these things are built for kids (or people in general, who can't handle a PC)

After 2 years, you're stuck with alot of expensive equipment, that is becoming obsolete at race tempo (unless you choose to play the same Games over and over).

At the same time, PC owners will have upgraded their Boxes over time, giving them a smooth transition to whatever new technology turns up (at their own choice and pacing)

PS.
Nothing personal Boui, but from someone hardly understanding 2nd/3rd line Hardware, Software or Technologies , I do not expect a useful opintion about state of the art Hardware, and you prove me correct over and over Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: 27.02.04 at 10:37:57 by FalconFly »  
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Andrew Boiu
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #34 - 27.02.04 at 10:49:32
 
To counter-point this: consoles are offering acceptable results for their price, want more, state of the art, you pay a hefty price for it. If you have the money, you could receive something that is 10 times better, more reliable than any PC, and offers the greatest quality, but the price is 100 times bigger, and the programes designed for it are 100.000 times more rare, at least.

You have to admit that this "compatibility no matter what, and on everything" gives a nice and steady boost for things that cost on an average 50$ but just adds and adds up to the prices, without receiving what is on papers.

Still not enough? Ok. You buy a 3 Ghz CPU today. Soon you discover that you need 1 Ghz of Ram because games are demanding. You buy a newer soundcard because the on-board one fails to sound correctly and stutters in some games. You then install Directx, tons of pathces, to find out that the game still don't runs. Then you have a feeling, and you try each and every setting on D3d. Yes, you make the game to start. You play the game, but you are going from 100fps downto 30 when lots and lots of things appear. You see the sky but it has some strange "dithering" effect even when you can only run in 32 bit color. Frustration all over the place, as the photos from the game looked way different in that game magazine, and on TV.

So, unless you like the pain of only a part that has been presented above (as in reality you could have way more problems), you either lack the money to buy now something else (hard to find one), or you find yourself in a vicious circle, investing over and over again in newer equipment to escape problems for a while. This has sense if you are using the PC at many more than just games, but a very large share of people use PC for games, then it is rather a constant loss of money.
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« Last Edit: 27.02.04 at 10:51:05 by Andrew Boiu »  
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dborca
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #35 - 27.02.04 at 11:05:24
 
Quote:
LMAO! But I hate to be put in the same category as "some" people  Wink


'k  Wink

Quote:
/Off-Topic: I just went to the Beyond Dreams website (which, FYI, is not beyonddreams.com, although that site was somewhat more interesting) and thought this would be an interesting little snippet for some of you out there:
"having a good image is more than necessary"


@everybody:
That _WAS_ an off-topic remark!!! Now everyone rushed to smack amp for "off-topic"-ing. *g* I wish I had a coin for each off-topic remark on each thread in this forum.  Undecided

And I think "beyonddreams.com" is a matter of taste.  Tongue I believe amp stated: "more interesting", not "an interesting". So I have to agree with him.  Grin

I believe (although I might be wrong) that the author of the thread intended to probe opinions about today IHVs. I mean VideoCard manufacturers. So I sense a lot of people off-topic here (that includes me, too).  Roll Eyes
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FalconFly
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #36 - 27.02.04 at 11:50:39
 
To the Problems that can ship with PC Games/Software :

Well, technically, there shouldn't be cases where something doesn't run at all.

And nobody today needs a 3GHz CPU or 1GHz *g* (1GB?) of RAM (except a handful of special Applications).

Most Problems (if existing) are caused by the guy sitting in front of the Monitor, due to lack of knowledge or experience.
Sounds harsh, but it's an old wisdom, and still holds true.

The remaining bits and pieces are indeed buggy Code, in which I fully agree.
But considering (as an example) that the Network Code of UT2004 is worth some 5 Million lines of code alone *ugh*, Bugs have been with PC users (and that includes to a lesser extend Mac or Linux/Unix) for quite some time now.

Since nothing man creates is perfect, this is unfortunately normal.

The same is valid for alot of products (even much more expensive ones like cars, for example). If they're new, they always contain some number of bugs or annoyances.
(remember the old saying : never buy a "point Zero" Version Wink )

All one has to do, is to inform himself, before making decisions. Once that (often omitted) most important step is done, things usually run as they should.
Sometimes, that requires nothing more than simply wait a month for the Game to mature with a Patch or two readily supplied.

If what I wrote wasn't true, nobody would be using PC's today Wink
(and those that do, would make frequent sessions with a psychatrist *g*)
------------------------
But one has also to consider, that PC's still remain what they always were :
Cutting edge technology, and by nature of their their complexity never meant to be used by everyone.

Often enough, Companies or people preach different, but if you look into the past, and compare it to today, one thing has never changed :
- as soon as Problems occur, the basic User quickly reaches his limits, despite colorific Multimedia WinXP Help Pages Wink
- at that point, help from other more experienced Users (formerly we'd call them "Admins" ) is needed, in the Past doing their Command Line magic, now using their knowledge of the key Controls of the OS (which often remains invisible to basic Users).

I guess that will never change, it's just that people forgot about it, or were/are in error to believe those times were over.

Anyway, new Hardware or Software isn't evil by nature.
It just takes skill to use it.
In times where every 'Joe Smack' thinks he can assemble and setup a PC on his own, this continues to hold true, that's it  Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: 27.02.04 at 11:51:14 by FalconFly »  
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Micha
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #37 - 27.02.04 at 17:04:17
 
Quote:
Most Problems (if existing) are caused by the guy sitting in front of the Monitor, due to lack of knowledge or experience.
Sounds harsh, but it's an old wisdom, and still holds true.

harr, i agree: the pc can't be smarter than the person sitting in front of it Grin

Quote:
But one has also to consider, that PC's still remain what they always were :
Cutting edge technology, and by nature of their their complexity never meant to be used by everyone.

not fully true...i remember times the pc was far beyond likeable systems. i considered the rush to have started in the late 80's/ early 90's, but I'm not your grandfather, so you might know better  Wink
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« Last Edit: 27.02.04 at 17:05:57 by Micha »  

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FalconFly
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #38 - 27.02.04 at 17:56:39
 
hehe, by "PC" I was extending beyond what we nowadays normally call "PC".

Long before the IBM compatible (x86) PC was widely accepted, there were numerous other Personal Computers (which at their time were often much cheaper, and more powerful/feasible in specific areas).

Good old times, Commodore VIC-20, C16/C116 and Plus/4 , Sinclair Z80, Schneider CPC series...
...later followed by the successful Commodore C64/128 and eventually AMIGA vs. ATARI ST series (and the rare but innovative Acorn Archimedes).

Those were only few of the past "Personal Computers", the list of the historical PC's is actually gigantic.
----------
What I meant in my previous Text :

The first PC's were in the hands of people who actually knew what they were doing (or adopting/learning quick).
Same applied to the earlier Systems (although for some it was sufficient if they were able to load & execute their Games Wink )

Today we have heaps more powerful and complex machines, not rarely in the hands of complete Tech n00bs (which in itself isn't bad, but some refuse to invest the time needed to understand the technology; they just want to use it, which ultimately leads to problems)
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nudgegoonies
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #39 - 27.02.04 at 18:53:57
 
'Every computer which is sold in the electronic-store around the corner and fit's on a simple student-desk is a "Personal Computer"'. I can't remember where i've read it but i think that line describes a PC perfectly! What's very interesting for me is that the PC wasn't really capable of running action games in the 80's. There were lots of games of course (look at www.the-underdogs.org) but when you look at SSI games from 81-85 or other games from that tim you'll see that they are mostly in 40x25 CGA textmode with userdefined characters. There were some some games using EGA in the late 80's but scrolling was bad. Some of them already supported music but no one could really afford the Adlib or CMS Gameblaster. Look at the scrolling of Duke Nukem 2 and compare it to the C64 or Amiga Version of Turrican and you know what i mean. I think the beginnig of the GAME-PC was Wing Commander - a 3D game. After that game 8bit was lost and it was Amiga against the PC. A clone of WC called EPIC (1992) looks similar on the Amiga and the PC. Until 95 the PC was better at 3D and the Amiga was better at 2D. Settlers, Dune 2 and other games were developed for both systems. Then in 1995 the Amiga was 'Doom'ed. I think you think you know wich game i mean Wink This was the end of non X86 PC's with the exception of the Apple Mac in the US.

Regards,
Andreas
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Micha
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #40 - 29.02.04 at 14:09:13
 
sure, Falcon, i was thinking of the AT system...
i still own a commodore64 and masses of games for it..this thing rocks  8)
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amp_man
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #41 - 29.02.04 at 17:34:47
 
Wow, this is amazingly far from the original topic, I can't even tell how it got there.

First off, I apologize to all you kiddies out there who have never seen p0rn before...are there any? At least I doubt on any board dedicated to 3dfx. c'mon, we're mature ppl here, a 6-year-old isn't going to be looking up info on video cards built while he/she was still sucking his/her thumb. I'm not saying that I personally watch/enjoy it, I'm simply stating that it is out there, it is something that people will stumble accross from time to time, as I did, and although not of much interest, there are less interesting things. Also, dborca, thnx for clarifying, there's a difference between "interesting" and "more interesting" (I pray that makes sense). And also, normally a "/Off-Topic:" would state that an off topic remark is about to come  Wink

Second, how on earth did we get from ATI vs. Nvidia and all the other players to 80s video games? Somehow, I think that it might have actually been my fault, with that stupid crap about linux drivers Embarrassed  But this is the point where I keep my mouth shut, most of what you're talkng about is from before I was born  Tongue
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Lecram25
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #42 - 29.02.04 at 20:19:44
 
...
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amp_man
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #43 - 29.02.04 at 21:49:19
 
If that is the will of the people, then it shall be so

On the other hand...

Quote:
This is against the rules of this board (and others boards also), is it clear ?


Very clear. However, I never posted the actual material on the site (hell, I haven't even seen anything but the front page), and the front page makes it very clear the content of the site. This was not intended to advertise the site, but more or less advertise that it wasn't what you might believe it was. BeyondDream's website is available by click the profile link under Andrei Boiu's posts, then clicking the home page link, or something like that, if anyone should happen to care.

Quote:
ps : You agree, through your use of this YaBB forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of ANY law


Again, nothing was actually posted, I didn't even make it a link!!

So, if you feel it necessary, go ahead, ban me, you've already gotten me demodded on vf Angry. Hell, ban me on there too, it's life or death for which I visit these forums, and there are many more out there. I'm sure cz would be more than willing to take me back  Grin I just happen to like these forums because they are (or at least used to be) very inviting, and like myself, somewhat nostalgic, not to mention that the people here are bright as anything (save for a couple). Heck, any forum with geniuses who can get 3+ year old cards compatible with the latest standards must be damn smart. Anyways, I've got to leave, I hope this post is not my last.

EDIT: If you're going to ban me, you might as well take out the guy who calls himself nudegoonies, or the one on VF called fukker while you're at it  Wink
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Lecram25
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Re: Who do we look up to now?
Reply #44 - 29.02.04 at 21:58:01
 
They're not gonna ban you, lol...patience was just makng a remark about the picture...
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