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Voodoo5 5500 on VIA K8T800Pro ( AGP 4x ) (Read 4013 times)
osckhar
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Re: Voodoo5 5500 on VIA K8T800Pro ( AGP 4x )
Reply #15 - 25.07.07 at 20:52:29
 
@Radu,

V5-5500 AGP4x
...

Check it for high size.
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8071/agp4xnotchij2.jpg

Oscar
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m14radu
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Re: Voodoo5 5500 on VIA K8T800Pro ( AGP 4x )
Reply #16 - 25.07.07 at 21:30:22
 
Thanks Osckar !

Well it seems that the Pin A2 is connected ! ( TYPEDET - ground )
The Pins #3 and #11 are also not connected . ( AGP 2.0 Specifications ).

Ill take a closer look at the Pins tomorow.... Wink

P.S. Did your card worked until she died with normal AGP Voltage ( 1.5 Volt ) ?

By comparing the two cards, AGP4x with AGP2x i notice that the Voltage Regulator Area is different.

...

Top:      Voodoo5 AGP2x - notice the 2 big caps, 2 big Coils ...
Bottom: Voodoo5 AGP4x - only one big cap, one coil...
All Voodoo5 AGP4x cards, with SDRAM or SGRAM are made only in this configuration. ( on Gary's Page you will find more examples ).
Why is this difference in this area ? Any ideas ?

The voodoo5 5500 AGP2x and AGP4x uses the same BIOS file ?


Regards.
Radu.
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« Last Edit: 27.07.07 at 21:39:48 by m14radu »  
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Re: Voodoo5 5500 on VIA K8T800Pro ( AGP 4x )
Reply #17 - 26.07.07 at 11:32:47
 
and the story goes on...

Today i tried more...

1. Evilking Voodoo4 card.

First of all, i start with my Voodoo4 Evilking card.
Everybody knows that the card, even if has an AGP4x noch, it's still uses 3.3Volts signals.
In Bios can be only selected the AGP1x and AGP2x; The Epox 8K5A2 board has the hardware monitoring that confirmed to me the AGP Voltage of approx 3.3Volts.

After i study the card, i saw that the A2 pin seems to be connected.... after a check with multimeter, it result that there is no connection between Pin A2 and ground.
So that i came to the ideea to connect the Pin A2 to the ground.
Then  i pluged the card again in the AGP Slot, and start the system. The Voltage Monitroing tells me the AGP Voltage of 1.5Volts.
In Bios the Option AGP4x can be choosen.
System was tested at 1.5Volts, and everything was Ok. No freeze, no BSOD.

So that i came to this modding accidentally, and now with this change these cards can be used safely into an AGP4x board.  Wink


2. Voodoo5 5500 - modifyed card.

The Pins 43 that were cuted out onto the graphics board, were ground connected. In order to check the card stability into  the AGP Universal board, i start several test .. everything was OK. No Problems at all, also dual chips work perfect. These test was done in order to see if there is necesary a ground connection into the cuted area.

The Pin 45 from the AGP Slot ( AGP1x and AGP2x ) is connected to VCC 3.3.
Starting with AGP4x, this Pin is no more available. ( KEY )

The Voodoo4 Evilcard has not the Pin 45.
So that my next ideea was to isolate these Pins on AGP Slot of my Epox 85KA2 board. So i did it.
The Pin A2 was connected to ground in order to supply the card with 1.5Volts.
The sistem did not start. Only some beeps...grrrr Angry
Then i installed another card in sistem, in order to see the AGP Voltage and if the Voodoo cards is recognized into the Device List.
The AGP Voltage shown was 1.5Volts, according to the mobo hardware monitor.
But, in Windows, the voodoo5 cards was not recognized.
So that, it seems, that the 1.5Volts, provided from the motheboard is not enough...
There must be a way to force the card to use the 1.5Volt mode.

In the VSA Databook are described the resistor networks that are responsible for the AGP Voltage reference.
One is for 1.5Volt, and one for 3.3Volts. Like Komponent says the simply way is to transform the second voltage network ( of 3.3Volts) into the first. ( 1.5Volts ).

1.5 Voltage reference consist of one resistor network.

1. a 210 ohm resistor conected to VDDQ
2. a 158 ohm resistor connected to ground
3. one 0.1 microF capacitor

3.3 Voltage reference consist of two resistor network.

Firs RC network.
1. a 210 ohm resistor conected to VDDQ
2. a 158 ohm resistor connected to ground
Second RC network.
4. a 210 ohm resistor in paralel with a 560pf capacitor
5. a 158 ohm resistor in paralel with a 560pf capacitor

so that the second RC network must be eliminated ( Position 4 and 5 ) and the 0.1 microF capacitor must be inserted. ( Postion 3 ).
Then it should work @1.5Volts.
Unfortunately i didn't locate yet these components on my Voodoo5 board but i'm keep searching... Roll Eyes

Br.
Radu.

Found something Wink:

Under each VSA chips from Voodoo5 5500 are located the following resistance:

32A means - 210 ohm - connected on to VDDQ.
20A menas - 158 ohm - connected to ground.
There is also another Resistance marked 472 (47,2 Kohm )  and one capacitor.

This Area is marked in the Picture !

...

These components are also on Voodoo4 from 3dfx and Evilking. On the Voodoo5 AGP4x Prototypes ( 5000 and 5500 ) this voltage network is also present.
This is the 1.55V Voltage reference.
But where is the 3.3Voltage reference voltage network...i search on every card, but these components are to find  only once !
I expected to find them twice, for the second network...thats wierd..

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« Last Edit: 26.07.07 at 13:30:59 by m14radu »  
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Re: Voodoo5 5500 on VIA K8T800Pro ( AGP 4x )
Reply #18 - 28.07.07 at 09:40:29
 
Hey
Congrats and good work m14radu !

Btw., did u manage to run stable the Voodoo5 5500 ? i mean in dual chip mode .

How the Project it's running ?
What's the Status ?

Please don't give up, and keep up the good work !
I hope that somebody on this forum will provide you the answers to your questions !

I found amazing that somebody take the such a risk and do something like this !

RESPECT !
Wink

Johnny
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m14radu
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Re: Voodoo5 5500 on VIA K8T800Pro ( AGP 4x )
Reply #19 - 28.07.07 at 10:47:07
 
nothing new until now....
Still tryng to identify the both voltage network... Angry
but don't worry, there is no reason to give up !
Wink
Br.
Radu.
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Re: Voodoo5 5500 on VIA K8T800Pro ( AGP 4x )
Reply #20 - 28.07.07 at 18:58:11
 
Quote:
[...]
Like Komponent says the simply way is to transform the second voltage network ( of 3.3Volts) into the first. ( 1.5Volts ).
[...]



Great to see that you are making new progress on your project; I feel that you will have a big success.
... But the statement that you mentioned as orriginating from myself is only partialy reproducted and it can lead to confussion this way, no offence.
The things that I realy said are that: There are infos that on the Voodoo5 5500 PCB's design, the signaling voltage refferences for 1.5V and 3.3V might be shortened (pardon my bad English, dudes; if the word is wrong, the meaning is that one trace dirrectly connects those two points). If so, then after strapping the GPU's TYPEDET pin to the ground with a resistor (and the AGP's A2 pin too along), the VSA100 will select the 1.5V signaling mode and so the network for the 3.3V voltage refference could be used for the 1.5V too, after moddifying it, ofcourse. But that is true ONLY if there is a short between those two GPU's pins. If not then another approach must be considered.
I am very sorry dudes; I realy wish that I would try to help this great project right now, like soon is not soon enough; and I have tools and skills and I hope knoledge too to offer my contribution, but after working 11 hours in a day at my job, in about arround 40 o Celsius, I am not able to do anything than try to recover for the next work day... I will do my best to try to do a check on the issue of PCB layout next week if the question will not be allready solved yet until then...
Radu, I keep my fingers crossed for you; I hope that we will get again very good news from you.
Almost forgot: Plese check on your PowerColor Voodoo4's PCB if the VDDQ and the VCC 3.3V are connected or not. If there is no short there then you found another great modding solution with the TYPEDET A2 grounding. Else... well... you see my point, it would not be a good ideea to run the card at 1.5V specs. AFAIK, there are two distinct Voodoo4 PCB designs for EvilKing cards, not counting the "L" card. One of them is known to have no compatibility with 1.5V signaling and so with AGP 4x mode and there is an info that on it's PCB the VDDQ and VCC 3.3V are linked; so when running it at 1.5V specs the extra current would get dumped on the circuit... If that is not the case with your PowerColor Voodoo4 card, then you have just provided, again, another working modding sollution for the beneffit of all the 3DFX fans!
Good luck and keep it up!
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« Last Edit: 28.07.07 at 19:07:23 by Komponent »  
 
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Re: Voodoo5 5500 on VIA K8T800Pro ( AGP 4x )
Reply #21 - 29.07.07 at 06:49:05
 
I'll check the status of the TYPE ( TYPEDET ) Pin at voodoo5.
I do not have an dead voodoo5, otherwise i will take the GPU off to make a better analisys. Have somebody a broken or dead v5 in order to check the status of this Pin ?
Another Problem is to find an soldering point on the PCB for this Pin.
Soldering this Pin to ground directly on the GPU's Die is not the best solution.

It's the Third Pin ( C1 ). See pls the picture.

...

Radu.
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« Last Edit: 29.07.07 at 08:02:44 by m14radu »  
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Re: Voodoo5 5500 on VIA K8T800Pro ( AGP 4x )
Reply #22 - 29.07.07 at 09:31:05
 
FOUND !

...

This Soldering point connect the both TYPEDET Pins from both GPU's together.
There is no connections between this pin and Ground.
So that i connect it to Ground. ( with this red wire )  Grin
The card start without problems. The hardware monitor of my Epox board show 3.3Volt.

Additionaly the A2 was also connected to ground.
But now the card didn't start anymore.

Angry

Did i miss something ?

Today is the day ! I can smeel it in the air !

@Komponent: What you say? The strapping resistor is missing ?
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« Last Edit: 29.07.07 at 09:36:04 by m14radu »  
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Re: Voodoo5 5500 on VIA K8T800Pro ( AGP 4x )
Reply #23 - 30.07.07 at 17:37:02
 
Well, i've done some more tests:

The red wire was replaced with a 100 ohm resistor.  Grin
Pin A2 was connected to ground.

Unfortunately, the card works as before, with 3.3 Volts. The behaviour is the same in both Mobo. ( KT333 and K8T800Pro ).

I did  not find the right soldering point for TYPEDET ?
Roll Eyes
Then, i tried to reduce the AGP Voltage on K8T800Pro.
Currently is running at 1.85 V.
When changing to 1.75V the card start without problems, but the 3DMark2001 return a device error.
The behaviour is the same in dual and single chip mode.
Maye an increased AGP Voltage will bring also more stability .. i don't know this.

That's all so far...
Keep testing and trying... 3dfx hardware has to live on !

Regards.
Radu.
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Re: Voodoo5 5500 on VIA K8T800Pro ( AGP 4x )
Reply #24 - 30.07.07 at 18:01:38
 
Quote:
Well, i've done some more tests:

The red wire was replaced with a 100 ohm resistor.  Grin
Pin A2 was connected to ground.

Unfortunately, the card works as before, with 3.3 Volts. The behaviour is the same in both Mobo. ( KT333 and K8T800Pro ).

I did  not find the right soldering point for TYPEDET ?
Roll Eyes


No, no... You found it allright, Radu! I can confirm your discovery 100%.
It is the right soldering point that connects dirrectly to both the VSA100's TYPEDET pins.
May I add that allthough it is not linked to the ground at all on it's default state, it is connected to VCC 3.3V through a 4.7kohm resistor.

Later edit:
Fortunately, I had a dead Voodoo5 and I removed the GPUs with my heat-gun so I could study it's PCB.
I am now also able to confirm that the voltage reference pins of the VSA100s are connected to the same (and the only for both) trace on the Voodoo5 PCB, for each GPU, so they share the circuit. The conclusion is obvious: the card can opperate compatible with only one mode; by default with 3.3V signaling and after the modding that I have in my mind as a 1.5V device only, not like the Voodoo4 that can run in any of both.
I will talk with Radu in private to agree on a way for me to offer my help in this project if he chooses to accept it...
Anyway, it looks like a mod that can be done to fully functional.
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« Last Edit: 30.07.07 at 22:30:29 by Komponent »  
 
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Re: Voodoo5 5500 on VIA K8T800Pro ( AGP 4x )
Reply #25 - 09.08.07 at 11:40:58
 
yes, they're shorted together (p2, p3) and are also connected to the top end of r37, c33, r36.
im not able to check vsa-100 #2 - the pins are too damaged :/

but as i already said, i think the typedet pin is not the solution cause it is usually only checked by motherboards with agp universal bus....

i think by connecting pin a2 to gnd, we'll force the motherboard to set the signal level to 1,5v -that might be the reason why it does not work with your card....
as you said, on your powercolor it worked to connect a2 to gnd to set the agp voltage to 1,5V and agp 4x. but we know that the v5 has problems with agp 4x mode (due to more than 1 device on the agp bus) and requires agp2x mode...

a good news: my new riser has arrived, i start doing stuff 2morrow!!!111

€dit:
one thing i can try is to connect the a2 pin at my v5 with one vsa-100 chip - it may work cause there's only one device at the agp bus.
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Re: Voodoo5 5500 on VIA K8T800Pro ( AGP 4x )
Reply #26 - 09.08.07 at 12:18:22
 
some other news....

i tried my riser card and a v5 at a asus a7v8x (kt400) and, like everytime when i try something, it did not work at all.
no post, no beeps, nothing.
i tried 2 v5 cards and both did not work. (even when i had set the agp voltage to 1,8V and the speed to 1x).

but finally, i installed my v5 with only the first vsa-100... and it did work - i get a post!
unfortunatly, my board does not support the agp voltage in the hardware monitor, but i thought it had select 1,5V cause i was also able to choose agp 4x. even more interessting was that the v5 did start up at agp 4x Wink

that means that the v5 supports 1,5V "out of the box", but only when one vsa-100 is installed - i think my motherboard always uses 1,5V  - some boards do that cause they do not check the typedet pin and always run the agp bus at 1,5V.

i will steal a k8t-neo2 motherboard soon and try it again there.

ps:
i used a riser card and did not cut anything in the motherboard or the v5 Wink

€dit:
the power regulator stuff on the right on the v5 changes something to 2,8V - the voltage required by the vsa-100. on the normal v5, many things are secured to avoid damage on the cards - see my thread (in german, very sorry): http://forum.voodooalert.de/thread.php?threadid=11016&threadview=0&hilight=voodo...

well, in short:
i had bought a v5 where vsa-100 #2 was dead. so i removed it with a hot air fan and it worked again, with only the first vsa-100. i tried to reinstall a second, working vsa-100 by putting it at the position - but it did not work- the pins where too damaged. but the interessting thing is that i forgot to install the atx power supply - but the card did power up for aprox 10 seconds (??)... upon now, i still dont know why it had worked..
later, i removed the second vsa-100 again and the card worked again with no probs Wink
it is a bit slower than a v4...

well, return to topic. what i think is interessting is the chip right over the first agp notch - it is missing on the agp 4x version. it might be very interessting to see what it actualy does.

€dit:
i just remind me that i head somethime ago that the vram on the v5 is directly supplied by the 3,3V of the agp... maybe the vsa-100 are not the problem but the vram?
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« Last Edit: 09.08.07 at 12:42:37 by IceFire »  
 
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Re: Voodoo5 5500 on VIA K8T800Pro ( AGP 4x )
Reply #27 - 11.08.07 at 08:53:23
 
Very interesting news..
especially that the v5 with only one chip AGP4x able is !
To be sure that the card is working at 1.5Voltage, please connect the A2 Pin to the ground.

I see also the problem that we encounter somewhere in the SLI configuration.

I read your thread on voodooalert.de ( ich lese es einfach täglich  Grin ), and i know the whole story.
Thank you for your contribution on this projekt !

Btw. can somebody tell me witch difference is between the V5 AGP2x and V5 AGP4x bios ?
Strapinfo bits ?
The file Size are the same... ?!?
I flash yesterday the v5 AGP4x bios on my modified v5, and the card did not start anymore.
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« Last Edit: 11.08.07 at 08:53:49 by m14radu »  
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Re: Voodoo5 5500 on VIA K8T800Pro ( AGP 4x )
Reply #28 - 13.08.07 at 02:53:57
 
uhm, i would say the bios is the smallest problem - once we see a pci device listed with 3dfx-mark in the device list, the bios will be the smallest problem.

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Re: Voodoo5 5500 on VIA K8T800Pro ( AGP 4x )
Reply #29 - 13.08.07 at 14:49:30
 
ok, i connected a2 on my risercard to gnd & installed the riser in my 8k5a2 motherboard.
the single-chip v5 is starting with no problems and reported 1,8V AGP voltage - i dont know why it is so high, but i think the problem is the motherboard - it  has some damaged capacitators.
but, as you already have tested, a normal voodoo 5 will _not_ boot up at 1,5V AGP voltage.
so, i think we can be sure that the problem is the sli configuration with 2 chips on one agp bus.

but: i did not tested the pci.exe - i will try soon....
maybe i will find a device - that would mean that the v5 is initialized correctly.

well, to get a solution we should compare the platine layouts on a v5 agp 4x and a usual v5 to find a difference.

as i already said, a very interessting chip is the one above the first agp notch - it is missing on the v5 agp4x and some v5 prototypes....
it would be interessting to see what it actualy does.


€dit:

those v5 agp 4x, do they run at 1,5V or 3,3V in agp 8x motherboards?
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« Last Edit: 13.08.07 at 14:54:31 by IceFire »  
 
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