3dfx Archive - Think Tank

amp_man Ex Member	Re: Think Tank Reply #45 - 06.04.04 at 13:25:51 Quote: amp_man, didn't you read my answer! Pack dry ice around the bottle! Yes I did, you didn't read my response! When you change water to it's solid form, it's no longer called water, it's called ice. So you've effectively gotten rid of some of the water! Grr, read my response again!
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Andrew Boiu

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Re: Think Tank
Reply #46 - 06.04.04 at 13:34:05

This discussion was more than a delight. Congratulations to everyone who was so clear in their statements, and so scientific!

Now back to the problem....

Problem: Some water is in a strong bottle.

(a) How could you make the H2O level fall without heating, moving the bottle or changing the amount of water inside?

(b) How could you make the H2O level rise under the same conditions and without putting anything else inside?

Answer:

(a) Add salt - this causes the water molecules to pack together more tightly and the water level will fall very slightly.

(b) Freeze it - e.g. by packing dry ice around the bottle, since ice expands.

Comment:
First answer is problematic, since you really need super-ultra dry salt, otherwise it would always contain water. And since as soon as you take one spoon of this super-dry salt from a container, it attracts water from the environment, so practically, almost never will you succeed in throwing salt in that bottle without adding water (in theory, ideal is possible so...)...

Second answer: if that bottle is not maked from glass (never mentioned this in the problem) then it could be a refractory material, like some sort of ceramics. That way, the water would never freeze, because the dry ice would be melted long before the temperature drops below 0 inside the bottle. Also, if you have a super-heat-conductor material it is not impossible that the heat would be transmitted so fast that you either obtain super-quick freezing of water inside the bottle, and/or immediately the water defreeze, since the environment is much hotter and can make the water absorb the heat very fast (super-heat conductive materials).

And the final problems: H20 is not water. Commonly it is accepted, but physically it's not. So, how you transform H20-water in your problem??? And also, some chemical reactions are not so certain when you have H20 as when you have water (the salt problem since you have H and O are equilibrated in H2O, and thus wouldn't react with salt).

And definitively I see no sense in things like "this is the final answer". A problem generally has tons of answers, and what is right or wrong is judged by the known figures from reality inside your mind, not those not yet seen.

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janskjaer

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Re: Think Tank
Reply #47 - 07.04.04 at 20:41:59

Quote:

Whoa! I guess this makes you the holder of the absolute truth, then!

A friend of mine said "People who rant has nothing left to say".

Who's ranting? I suggest it was those who wasn't willing to accept the answer that I gave. Tongue

Quote:

I believe that particular riddle belongs to some other thread, named Think Tomb (or Think Tenebrae). I shall explain myself...

You were saying about ranting?! Roll Eyes

Quote:

You asked batracio:
Then I ask you: what if your water (ehm!) is already saturated with salt? You never said anything about the quality of water, now did you?

I never recall mentioning saltwater in my question! Grin

Just the old fashioned kind of water, normal water! Tongue

Quote:

PS: another thing:
Make sure you add extra/super/mega dried salt, otherwise...

??? Say what?? ???

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« Last Edit: 08.04.04 at 08:36:46 by N/A »

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janskjaer

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Re: Think Tank
Reply #48 - 07.04.04 at 20:45:49

Quote:

Yes I did, you didn't read my response! When you change water to it's solid form, it's no longer called water, it's called ice. So you've effectively gotten rid of some of the water! Grr, read my response again!

Packing dry ice around the bottle, doesn't neccessarily freeze the water! Just cools the temperature of it!

amp_man, we're not playing with words here! Just because you can say some of the water in the bottle is now ice, which means there is now less water, doesn't mean the H20 level has differed.
Think amp_man, think! Grin

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janskjaer

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Re: Think Tank
Reply #49 - 07.04.04 at 20:49:54

I have decided! Roll Eyes

I will not post any more questions as they seem to spawn uneccessary debates that go into far too much detail, which borderlines insanity and uneccessity.

I asked for a simple answer, I didn't get it. I gave it, people were not happy. Instead, we continue to rant about possible answers and I do not see the reason why we waste our time doing this.
I apologise for any inconvenience caused.

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amp_man

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Re: Think Tank
Reply #50 - 07.04.04 at 20:53:06

Quote:

Packing dry ice around the bottle, doesn't neccessarily freeze the water! Just cools the temperature of it!

amp_man, we're not playing with words here! Just because you can say some of the water in the bottle is now ice, which means there is now less water, doesn't mean the H20 level has differed.
Think amp_man, think! Grin

No duh, but the amount of water has changed. Perhaps it is you that needs to think a little harder
Tongue

Anyways, this was a stupid riddle, with too many potential answers to even bother with trying to argue.

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dborca

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Re: Think Tank
Reply #51 - 08.04.04 at 07:45:56

Quote:

You were saying about ranting?! Roll Eyes

Yes, I was saying, indeed. I was explaining myself, not asserting "CASE CLOSED" (please note: UPPERCASE) just because people had different opinions.

Quote:

I never recall mentioning saltwater in my question! Grin

Just the old fashioned kind of water, normal water! Tongue

No, I never recalled your old fashioned water being at 4 Celsius, either.

About extra dried salt (It's not the first time when I give funny answers -- sorry for people that doesn't make through them) Andrei was pretty explicit. Can't you read?

Some guy ever said "Though we are sharing the same environment, each of us live in his own world". *g* I quoted from memory... Might be Schopenhauer (or might be not) but it's in his philosophy... according to which the world is just a ruleset of conventions. So, if several dudes have different opinions than yours, take a brief moment and ask yourself: is it me that's wrong?

Last but not least (not quite to the subject -- but merely schopenhauerian): if thousands of people have different opinion than yours, then you ARE wrong. Why, simply because the world is a ruleset of conventions. And the majority out there establish these conventions. That is, how do you know the blood id red? Because you were taught so. By whom? By people out there (mom, pap, friends etc).

*g* that was out of place!

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janskjaer

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Re: Think Tank
Reply #52 - 08.04.04 at 08:38:15

Falconfly/Patience,

I'm having a problem with one of my posts. In one of my recent posts I typed the word "saltwater" in bold and it came out "salthingyer" ???

When I go back into preview it still says "saltwater" in bold tags, but comes out "salthingyer" again.

salt water
saltwater (here I type the words "salt" and "water" without a space).
watersalt

Strange magic!

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« Last Edit: 08.04.04 at 08:39:56 by N/A »

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janskjaer

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Re: Think Tank
Reply #53 - 08.04.04 at 08:46:51

Quote:

Yes, I was saying, indeed. I was explaining myself, not asserting "CASE CLOSED" (please note: UPPERCASE) just because people had different opinions.

No, I never recalled your old fashioned water being at 4 Celsius, either.

About extra dried salt (It's not the first time when I give funny answers -- sorry for people that doesn't make through them) Andrei was pretty explicit. Can't you read?

Some guy ever said "Though we are sharing the same environment, each of us live in his own world". *g* I quoted from memory... Might be Schopenhauer (or might be not) but it's in his philosophy... according to which the world is just a ruleset of conventions. So, if several dudes have different opinions than yours, take a brief moment and ask yourself: is it me that's wrong?

Last but not least (not quite to the subject -- but merely schopenhauerian): if thousands of people have different opinion than yours, then you ARE wrong. Why, simply because the world is a ruleset of conventions. And the majority out there establish these conventions. That is, how do you know the blood id red? Because you were taught so. By whom? By people out there (mom, pap, friends etc).

*g* that was out of place!

I do apologise dborca, but you are really ranting now and I'm sorry if I may offend but I get half way through your posts and either fall asleep with boredom, or get lost and confused in what point you are trying to make (your structuring of English sentences are a little hard to connect together).

I am really sorry but can we cut this topic short as I struggle to see the points we make by taking this any further.

We have agreed that there could have been many different answers to the question, depending on how adamant you are to go into further detail and obsessed with finding other solutions than the one I gave.
Yes, there can be many different answers, depending on how far you are willing to take this, even sometimes to disprove all scientifc laws and theories. Wink

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dborca

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Re: Think Tank
Reply #54 - 08.04.04 at 11:04:11

Quote:

I do apologise dborca, but you are really ranting now

You might want to explain...

Quote:

and I'm sorry if I may offend but I get half way through your posts and either fall asleep with boredom,

I see yours are very interesting. Right!
Since this is a personal attack, I cannot help myself... You bloated this forum with... ehm... Patience this, Patience that! Be a real man and take a trip to France!

Quote:

or get lost and confused in what point you are trying to make (your structuring of English sentences are a little hard to connect together).

Well, I am sorry to disappoint you, but I was born and currently live in Romania. You see, not everybody is so lucky to live in US, UK or whatever the heck you think it's the center of the universe. Wow, people do live outside UK! Go figure!
You are dragging the whole idea of free spech into dirt! *g*

Quote:

We have agreed that there could have been many different answers to the question

No, we haven't! CASE CLOSED, eh? This is your opinion about "agreed"? Well, you sound like a moronic professor that think he's right and the poor bastard (student) that tries to contradict him should burn in flames forever.

Quote:

depending on how adamant you are to go into further detail and obsessed with finding other solutions than the one I gave.

I am not obsessed. And it was not only me who tried to give other solutions. It was you to give one and only one solution!

Besides, the schopenhauerian idea was launched by Andrei Boiu (but it's the Nth time when you prove me you are utterly unable to read and interpret a fancy answer).

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Micha

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Re: Think Tank
Reply #55 - 08.04.04 at 17:21:48

hurray, i read it all! & I'm just nearly bored now! anyway, i'd say daniel's english is better than most other people's in here, involving me..okay, I'm just an idiot from germany (the country of the great schopenhauer & where your half your cpus are from Grin

), so who takes a notice of my opinion ???

back to topic: *needs_big_letters*
got another riddle yet? maybe something easier for some in here Grin

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« Last Edit: 08.04.04 at 17:24:32 by Micha »

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FalconFly

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Re: Think Tank
Reply #56 - 08.04.04 at 19:27:13

Hmm..

Okay guys, I didn't really get the point of this riddle in the first place, nor read really much of it.

A good technique to start one, however, is to already have the definite, and only answer at hands to end it anytime.
A 'riddle' having more than one possible answer, or presented with insufficient/improperly layed out rules is completely pointless Tongue

----------------------
I'd say the Forum needs rather a timeout, so for now no more "riddles" please... Roll Eyes

Morale :
Use Books or Educational Websites to seek knowledge and use Flashsites or Retail Products to play games, rather than posting "riddles" with uncertain outcome Roll Eyes

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janskjaer

Ex Member

Re: Think Tank
Reply #57 - 08.04.04 at 19:58:41

Quote:

You might want to explain...

I don't want to start ranting myself now, do I? Tongue

Quote:

I see yours are very interesting. Right!

Hey, I'm the one keeping it short and sweet! Grin

Quote:

Since this is a personal attack, I cannot help myself... You bloated this forum with... ehm... Patience this, Patience that! Be a real man and take a trip to France!

I struggle to see the point you are making here (yet again) but if I am right, you may be trying to say I have been "buttering up" Patience.
I think you have made a mistake (once again).
There is nothing wrong with treating someone with a little respect and courtesy (you should try it). I would like to see how Patience reacts to your remark.
Secondly, if that is the case, I am very happy with my beautiful girlfriend (want a pic? I can guarantee, you would agree! Tongue

) I have at home.
Maybe I have triggered some pent-up feelings you have for Patience and I have made you envious in some form or another.

Quote:

Well, I am sorry to disappoint you, but I was born and currently live in Romania.

I work for a company in the UK, who own an IT company in Romania called IFSoft. Charming people, some of the most polite people you could ever meet. I think to myself, 'Can all Romanians be as polite and well mannered as this?'...... apparently not! Tongue

Quote:

You see, not everybody is so lucky to live in US, UK or whatever the heck you think it's the center of the universe. Wow, people do live outside UK! Go figure!
You are dragging the whole idea of free spech into dirt! *g*

I cannot find any evidence or traces of a remark I have made of this nature. 'Nuff said.

Quote:

No, we haven't! CASE CLOSED, eh? This is your opinion about "agreed"? Well, you sound like a moronic professor that think he's right and the poor bastard (student) that tries to contradict him should burn in flames forever.

I tried to settle this debate calmly by agreeing that multiple answers could have been made.
I am a student myself, and far from the "moronic professor" you make me out to be.
There was no need to hurl your abuse and remarks the way you did. I apologised for any offence caused to ANYONE if it appeared that way, you didn't, and made your feelings quite clear.

Quote:

I am not obsessed. And it was not only me who tried to give other solutions. It was you to give one and only one solution!

As many others have said, there are many possible answers, which I now agree with. I was looking for one simple answer that the Think Tank also had, to see if people came up with the same answer. If I made it sound as though there was no other possible answer in the enitire World, I do apologise, I didn't mean it that way. The question and answer were probably extracted from some science encyclopedia.

Quote:

Besides, the schopenhauerian idea was launched by Andrei Boiu (but it's the Nth time when you prove me you are utterly unable to read and interpret a fancy answer).

I had no trouble with Andrei Boiu's answers, in fact, his answers and statements on the German philosopher and his fundamental reality theories proved to be quite interesting in an educating and philosphical manner.
The only ones I didn't read/understand/got bored of, was your answers, and I have given the reasons why (see my previous post).

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amp_man

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Re: Think Tank
Reply #58 - 08.04.04 at 22:25:59

Quote:

I cannot find any evidence or traces of a remark I have made of this nature. 'Nuff said.

dude, you directly insulted his english. Of course his english isn't going to be the greatest, believe it or not, there are countries out there that don't speak english.

Anyways, I think this needs a new riddle (contrary to Falconfly's belief) to get people off the subject of the old one Roll Eyes

.

A man and a woman have been happily married for fifty years and have never had a fight or slept together. Yet they have two kids. How is this possible?

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batracio Junior Member Offline An evil petting zoo? Posts: 69 Spain Gender:	Re: Think Tank Reply #59 - 09.04.04 at 05:03:18 Quote: A man and a woman have been happily married for fifty years and have never had a fight or slept together. Yet they have two kids. How is this possible? Not married together?
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